Tradition and Revolution Dialogues with J. Krishnamurti

(Nora) #1

THE MATRIX OF TRADITION


Dialogue 20

B: In Buddhism they mention three categories of people in the world: the
ordinary, worldly man who has his pleasures, pain, etc.; the path-winner, the
person who has a glimpse of the direction; and the arhat. The worldly man might
perform rituals, but he is still a worldly man till he has an experience, a glimpse
of the direction. The path-winner wanders away but always comes back, till such
time when there is no more going back to the first stage.


K: A man who is of the world has a glimpse of the path—how does he have it?
And once he is on the path he may wander back and forth, wander and come
back to the path and, finally, settle down and reach the state of being an arhat.
Are you asking how the worldly man is to have a glimpse?


C: There is the concept of sādhanā, which is a method of attaining the spiritual
goal.


K: Methods or systems imply a process in time.


C: It may not necessarily imply time.


K: If I have to go through the gate to attain a goal, then going through the gate
implies a process of time. All sādhanās imply a process of time.


C: Tradition also says that sādhanās are useless.


K: Most people insist on sādhanā. Though they say it is not necessary, it has
become part of the tradition.


B: They say that it is better to go through sādhanā, but they do not guarantee that
you will reach the goal through the sādhanā.


K: The word sādhanā implies a process, and a process means things put together.
And the putting together implies time. Even the most scientific concept of time
recognizes that time is the putting of things in a horizontal or vertical position.
So, sādhanā implies time. What is the question, sir? What does the tradition say?


B: The Buddhist tradition says that when a man in sorrow has a glimpse of the
path, he is a path-winner. When he works out his salvation, he becomes an arhat.


C: They say that when you attain the non-dual state, there is no going back.


K: How do you come to it?

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