K: You understand, sir, that there is never any accumulation from which he
speaks. So the question: How do you say such things? involves the larger
question of whether wisdom, or whatever you might like to call it, can be
contained in any particular consciousness, or whether it lies beyond all particular
consciousnesses.
Sir, look at this valley. Look at the hills, the trees, the rocks—the valley is all
that. Without the content of the valley there is no valley. Now, if there is no
content in consciousness, there is no consciousness—in the sense of the limited.
When you ask the question: How is it that he says these things?—I really do not
know. But the question can be answered: When it happens, the mind is
completely empty. This does not mean that you become a medium.
SW: I derive from this that infinity is beauty, rationality, logic. It is full of
symmetry in its expression.
K: Sir, having said all this, what do you want to find out? You have capacity,
you have read a great deal, you have knowledge, experience, you have practised
and meditated—from there, ask.
SW: Consciousness is bondage. Only from emptiness can one have entry into it.
K: So you are asking: How can a human being empty his mind?
SW: There is the traditional idea of the adhikāri, the person who can learn. And
the traditional idea is that there are levels or differences among the people who
can receive or learn. What we can learn depends on that difference. There are
three levels. In the orthodox texts they are mentioned as sattva, rajas and tamas.
Those who belong to the first category—sattva—can have understanding by
listening to a teacher. The rajas category have to listen and recollect when they
face a problem of life. The tāmasic ones cannot learn because their minds are too
gross. In order to make the mind subtle, there are many methods or upāsanās.
Yoga starts with breath control, meditation, standing on the head. Even so, they
say that āsanas (exercise postures of yoga) are meant as a cleansing. It is said: Be
passive, observe ‘what is’.
K: You say that, as human beings are constituted, there are levels or gradations
of receptivity. Is it possible for all people who are still in the process of
becoming to come upon this?
SW: That is one part of it. The other is that for most people there are moments of
understanding. But these slip away, and there is a constant struggle. What are
such people to do?
K: Knowing that there are levels, is it possible to cut across these levels?
SW: Is that a question of time?