GOD
Dialogue 25P: Krishnaji, at one level, your teaching is very materialistic because it refuses to
accept anything which does not have a referent; it is based on ‘what is’. You
have even gone so far as to say that consciousness is the brain cells, that thought
is matter, and that nothing else exists. Now in terms of this, what is your attitude
to God?
K: I do not know what you mean by materialism and what you mean by God.
P: You have said: Thought is matter and the brain cells themselves are
consciousness. Now these are material things, measurable. And, in that sense,
yours would be part of a materialistic position, in the tradition of the Lokāyatas.
In terms of your teaching, what place has God? Is God matter?
K: Do you clearly understand the word ‘material’?
P: What is material is measurable.
F: There is no such thing as the material, P.
P: The brain is matter.
F: No; it is energy. Everything is energy, but that energy is not observable. You
can only see the effects of energy which you call matter; the effects of energy
appear as matter.
D: When she says ‘matter’, she probably means energy. Energy and matter are
convertible, but still measurable.
K: You are saying that matter is energy and energy is matter; you cannot divide
them as pure energy and pure matter.
D: The material is the expression or appearance of energy.
F: What we call matter is nothing but energy. It is only energy as apprehended
by the senses of perception. There is no such thing as matter. It is only a manner
of speaking.
P: You see Krishnaji, your teaching is based on that which is observable by the
instruments of hearing, of seeing. Even though you may talk of not-naming, what
is observable is through the instruments of seeing, listening. The senses are the
only instruments we have with which to observe.