Tradition and Revolution Dialogues with J. Krishnamurti

(Nora) #1

thought and time. That is all I am trying to get at. When you really deny that, you
deny movement, outward or inward. Then what takes place?
Now begins an investigation of a totally different kind. First of all, the brain
realizes that it wants order, security, safety, in order to function sanely, happily,
easily. That is its basic demand. Now the brain realizes that any movement from
itself is within the field of time and, therefore, within the field of thought. Is there
then a movement at all? And is it a totally different kind of movement—a
qualitatively different movement, which is not related to time, to process, to the
forward or backward movements?
Now the question is: Is there any other movement? Is there something which
is not related to time? Any movement, outwardly or inwardly, as far as the brain
is concerned, is within the field of time. I see that. The brain realizes that though
it may think that it is extended infinitely, it is still very small.
Is there a movement which is not related to thought?—This question is put by
the brain, not by some super entity. The brain realizes that any movement in time
is sorrow. So it naturally abstains from any movement. Then it asks itself if there
is any other movement which it really does not know, which it has never tasted.
That means that one has to go back to the question of energy. We have
separated energy as human and cosmic. Do you follow what I mean? Do you see
it? I have always regarded the movement of energy as being within the limited
field, and I have separated that energy from cosmic, universal energy. Now the
battle is over. Thought has realized its limitation and, consequently, human
energy has become something entirely different.
The division of energy as the cosmic and the human is created by thought.
The division ceases, and another factor has entered. To a mind which is not
centred within itself, there is no division. Then, what is there to investigate? Or,
what is the instrument of investigation?
There is investigation, but not the investigation to which I have been
accustomed—which is an exercise of the intellect, of reason, and all the rest of it.
And this investigation is not intuitive. The brain now realizes that in itself there is
no division. Therefore, the brain has not divided itself as the cosmic, the human,
sexual, the scientific or the business brain. Energy has no division.
Then what takes place? We started by asking if thought is material. Thought
is material, because the brain is matter; thought is the result of the material.
Thought may be abstract but it is the result of the material. Obviously it is. Few
have gone beyond.


F: The meaning of the body is consciousness; what is the meaning of existence?


K: What is the meaning of this room? Emptiness, because emptiness is created
by the four walls, and in that emptiness, I can put a chair and use the room.


F: The room has meaning because P lives here.


K: Furnishes, lives, fears, hopes, quarrels here.

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