Tradition and Revolution Dialogues with J. Krishnamurti

(Nora) #1

A: Let us take the movement of life-energy as something unknown to us. We
cannot manipulate it. In the measure that man becomes conscious of the entire
evolutionary process in himself, he becomes aware of consciousness.


P: I think we are going around in circles. What is observable is that man is born,
lives and dies. The phenomenon of a cyclic movement, of a beginning and an
ending of energy, is visible and deeply structured in our consciousness—
something emerging and disappearing, which are the two manifestations of
energy. Is there an energy which is not concerned with emerging or
disappearing?


K: It is the same thing. Do we accept that there is a beginning and an ending of
energy?


F: Individuals may begin and end, but life does not. It creates.


K: Do not bring in the individual yet. There is a movement of energy which is
mechanical, which is measurable, which may end, and there is life-energy which
you cannot manipulate; it goes on infinitely. We see that in one case there is a
wastage of energy, and that in the other there is a non-wastage of energy.


F: I do not see the other as a fact.


K: All right. Let us see the movement of energy which can reach a height and
decline. Is there any other form of energy which can never end, which is not
related to the energy which begins, continues and withers away? Now how are
we going to find out? I have got it. What is energy that decays?


P: Material energy decays. Why does it decay?—By friction?


D: By pressure?


F: The fact is that there is energy overcoming friction, and energy dissipating in
friction.


P: You say that there is an energy which decays in friction, through friction. I say
that its very nature is friction. All that movement which we call energy, in itself
is friction. Show me why it is not so.


D: Energy is the biological capacity to overcome resistance; but it dissipates
itself in this process.


K: As in a machine.


P: So it is manifest as friction.

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