Tradition and Revolution Dialogues with J. Krishnamurti

(Nora) #1

A: In the concrete instances which we are discussing, this is not true.


P: If you were to pose a question to me which threatened my image of myself, or
even if I were to pose such a question to myself, there would be resistance. Yet
by observing, moving step by step, there is no necessity to pose that question. If
you pose the question, it is disastrous.


K: I am opening up the problem.


P: If I pose that question, everything rushes to protect the image, whereas if I
move, observe step by step, then there is a fluidity that dissolves the image.


K: It dissolves only when you and I want to communicate something which is
not merely words. Right? Very few go beyond that point; very few are willing to
break their opinions, their conclusions, their images. In talking it over, I discover
the image, you throw light on it, and I see. The very seeing is the ending of it.
There is the word, meaning, description, analysis, seeing without the image.
That is real communication. Right? The difficulty comes in when we enter into
something which is non-verbal. So, can there be communication about something
which is beyond the word?
What is the quality necessary for both of us to understand something which is
not the word?—Which means, to look at it, and not be caught in the description,
in the explanation, in the meaning, in the word.


P: Look at what you have just done. You take us up to a point through analysis,
thought, word. You sharpen intelligence, rarefy intelligence. You never proceed
beyond that. So there is nothing, no description with which I can fill this
emptiness.


K: Listen. To communicate in the sense we are talking about, that is, through
word, meaning, description, analysis, all that and something more, the mind must
not be caught in the word, in the meaning of words, in the description, or in the
analysis. It must not be caught; it must be fluid, it must move. But you hold on to
the words. The word, the meaning, the description, the analysis, is a process of
thought and of memory. The word, cultivated, gathered through years, the
meaning which you and I have given it, and the description through the word—
all that is thought. Now you tell me something which is not the word. And I
move all the time in terms of thought. I move with thought. Right?
Communication is the word and communication is not the word. So the meaning,
the description and the analysis—all that must be there, and the mind be so... (I
do not know what word to use), so that you and I see the same thing, at the same
time, at the same level, and with the same intensity. Otherwise our
communication is verbal.


P: Now comes the crucial point.

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