P: And the second question was: Where there is intelligence, is there stripping?
K: Let us start with the first question, it is good enough. What do you say?
P: It is one of those extraordinary questions where you cannot either say yes or
say no.
D: It hangs on time or no time. If it is invited, it is time.
P: If you say it is not a question of time, then it is not a process. Five minutes
later it will emerge again. So this question cannot be answered.
K: I am not sure. Let us begin again. My consciousness is made up of all this; my
consciousness is used to the process of time; my consciousness thinks in terms of
gradualness; my consciousness is: practise, and through practice achieve—which
is time; my consciousness is a process of time.
Now I am asking that consciousness whether it can go beyond this. Can we,
who are caught in the movement of time, go beyond time? Consciousness cannot
answer that question. Consciousness does not know what it means to go beyond
time because it only thinks in terms of time. So, when questioned whether the
process can end (leading to a state in which there is no time), it cannot answer,
can it?
Now, since consciousness cannot answer the question, we say: Let us see
what awareness is and investigate whether that awareness can bring about a
timeless state. But this brings in new elements: What is awareness? Is it within
the field of time, or is it outside the field of time? Is there in awareness any
choice, any explanation, justification or condemnation? In awareness is there an
observer, or the one who chooses? And if there is an observer, is that awareness?
So, is there an awareness in which the observer is totally absent? Obviously there
is. I am aware of that lamp, I do not have to choose when I am aware of it. Is
there an awareness in which the observer is totally absent?—Not a continuous
state of awareness in which the observer is absent, which again is a fallacious
statement.
A: The word for this is svarūpa śūnyatā—the observer becomes empty; he is
stripped.
K: Now, is that awareness to be cultivated?—which implies time. How does this
awareness in which there is no observer come into being? Is this awareness to be
cultivated? If it is to be cultivated, it is the result of time, and also a part of that
consciousness in which choice exists.
And you say awareness is not choice; it is observation in which there is no
observer. Now, how is that to come about without consciousness interfering?
Does it come out of consciousness, flower out of it? Or, is it free of
consciousness?