Tradition and Revolution Dialogues with J. Krishnamurti

(Nora) #1

which has been functioning in a pattern. At the moment of insult, for the old
brain not to respond, there must be complete attention. In that moment of
attention there is no cause-effect.


A: If there is no attention, the response becomes the cause of another chain.
Therefore, where an effect germinates itself into a new cause, it is there that
action which is different comes.


K: I do not think so. I insulted you because of my unconscious neglect of you. It
has hurt you, and you want to hurt me. The cause of my not greeting you may
have been that I was interested in the birds, in the movement of their wings. I am
an artist and I wanted to look at a bird in all its movements. So I failed to greet
you. Where is the cause and where is the effect?


J: The cause is in oneself.


K: The observation of the movement is not in oneself.


J: Insult arises within me, not within you.


K: I have unintentionally given cause to insult you.


J: What makes me feel insulted is within me; cause and effect are within me.


K: You are saying: Though I did not greet you, the very fact of that insult was
born in you; it was not given to you. I am not at all sure.


A: If I have affection for you and I see you watching the bird, I will understand,
but if I do not have affection, then I will blame you. So causation is always
within.


K: I see what you are saying.


A: It is not always a one-to-one relationship. Instead of saying that this cause
arises within this person, the general law is as follows: Thus the whole thing
arises within a matrix of not-knowing, avidyā. You now come to the focus of the


‘I’. For in avidyā there are saṃskāras, (tendencies) of all that man has done.


From that there is consciousness, and out of consciousness naming arises. These
lead to the body and the six senses. Then you see. But one cannot start from the
point of ‘I-see’, and start only from there. Cause is used in a broad cosmic sense.


J: Śaṅkara says that you cannot say how ignorance began, and he denies
causation. Cause-effect can be ended. Before you go any further you have to
exhaust the intellect.


K: Is this part of Zen?

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