K: The moment you perceive something to be true, how can it return? The
moment you see that the snake is dangerous, you do not go back to the snake.
A: Nāgārjuna says: If you see what I am saying as a concept, you are finished.
J: Is there some other way?
A: You say something. The moment you say something, the instrument stops
operating, because that instrument is not going to say anything more.
K: But that instrument is very sharp, very clear; it abstains from partial action.
A: If it is constantly watching, it can operate.
K: No, sir, the whole analytical process is finished.
A: When we have gone through this—
K: No, we are not exploring. I am showing you how to explore. What you have
done is to use the intellect, a partial instrument. And you thought that was the
complete answer. See how the mind has deceived itself, how it says: I have
analysed all this. But it has not seen how partial it is and, therefore, how
valueless. The intellect has itself become valueless as an instrument of
examination. I am asking myself: If the intellect is not the instrument of
examination, what takes place?
A: One feels the need for support, for help, for some prop when one comes to
this point.
K: The fact is that the intellect is an incomplete instrument and cannot
understand a movement which is total. Then what is examination? If the intellect
cannot explore, what is the instrument that can explore? What do Śaṅkara,
Nāgārjuna, the Buddha say about this? Do they deny the intellect?
A: They say: Explore with the help of the terra firma.
K: That is, with partial vitality, partial energy, explore the whole energy. How
can this be? Why have they said this?
R: The Vedāntic concept is that you cannot see with the intellect; but with the
ātman or the Self, which is of the very nature of perception, you can see.
A: As our minds have been heavily conditioned, when we find a support we hold
on to it.