New York Magazine - USA (2019-11-25)

november25–december8, 2019 | newyork 35

devastating. Negroes would have been

hanging their heads like, I cannot believe,

and that’s about the symbolism. That’s

notaboutpolicy.

IsitthatObamawasa symbolwecould

collectivelyfeelgoodabout,whomadeus

feelgoodaboutourselvesandourplacein

Americaasblackpeople, whilealsomak-

ingwhitepeoplefeelgoodabouttheir

abilitytotolerateus?

Yeah,it probablydid.Peopleforgetthat

Obamais immenselypopularwithblack

people,likeprobablythemost popular

personmaybe afterhiswife. There’s

somethinginblackfolksthat they feel

goodaboutwhenthey seehim.Andthere

probablyis a criticalmassofwhitepeople

whofeelgood,maybeforotherreasons,

butfeelgoodthemselves.Partofthat is

aboutthewayheconductshimselfin

public.BeforeObama,most famousblack

peoplewereallentertainers.Andnowyou

gotanactualheadofstatewhoconducts

himselfina waythat youwouldwantyour

sontoconducthimself.

Hasthatthentranslatedinto, okay, so

maybethere’smore tousasblackpeople

that’sworthinvestingin,andthat’s why

wehavetheseculturalproducts?

Probablynotformost, butforsomecriti-

calmassof whitepeoplewhoprobablywere

alreadysomewhat susceptibletoit,yes.

Whattoyouarethemostimportant

culturalproductsofthisdecade?

JesmynWard,Salvage theBones,^6 which

I justfinisheda coupleofweeksago and

I’mstillrecoveringfrom.KendrickLamar—

Anyparticularalbum?

I gottosayGoodKid,M.A. A.DCity.I felt

likehewastalkingaboutmy childhood, 20

yearsbefore.I thinkabout“TheArt ofPeer

Pressure,” andthat just soundedlike beinga

kidinthelate’80s,early’90s.Creed^7 is

incredible.Whatit doesthat it probably

doesn’t getenoughcreditforisit takesa

whitemyththat was,let’sjust say, problem-

atic,andit heals.It healsthedisturbing

thingsaboutit,actually. TheWarmthof

OtherSuns,^8 is thatintheperiod?

Thatwas 20 10.

Absolutelyrevolutionary. I alwaysfelt

likeitwasthespiritualmotherof“The

CaseforReparations.”What it didwasfocus

on that class of strivers, as opposed to how

most books about black people focus on the

black poor. It pointed out to me that people

thinkofracismassynonymoustoclass.

WhatIsabelwasshowingwasevenamong

peoplewhoyouthinkofasmiddleclass,

theyactuallyhavenotescaped.Youknow

thatyou’renottalkingaboutanothermani-

festationofclass.You’retalkingaboutan

axisthatworksindependentofclassalong

withclass.That raceis itselfa kindofclass.

Andnomatterhowa muchofa striveryou

areorhowmiddleclassyouare,itstill

exertsa penalty onyou.We gottotalk

aboutKaepernick,too.Wedon’t haveto

talkabouthimrightnow,but—

Now’sagoodtime. What’sonyour

mindaboutColinKaepernick?^9

I don’t knowhowthingswillbelooked

at20, 30 yearsfromnow, butI thinkKae-

pernickis really,reallyimportant.When

he’s nolongerdangerous,whenhe’s no

longertryingtogeta job,whenhe’s 40,

whenhe’s 50,a lotofpeoplewillbestand-

inguptohonorhim.Thisis like howwhen

everybodylooksbackat thecivil-rights

movement,theythinkeverybodywaslike,

“Y eah,that’sa great idea.” Clearly,werec-

ognizeBullConnorastheenemy, andthis

isthegoodguy. That’snotreallyhowit

goes,man.Thisis exactlylike it’s happen-

ingwithKaepernickrightnow.It’sa little

messy,youknowwhat I mean?Thepeople

pushingforthechangeain’t alwaysright.

They’renotalwayspursuingit inthebest

strategicfashion.Thewholecountry is

dividedandpolarized;theblackcommu-

nityitself, polarizedanddivided.Butonce

thedustsettles,I thinkit willbequiteclear

whathappened.

Evenjust watchinghowthepublicwork-

outwentthisweekend,^10 I’vemarveledat

howwellthe NFLhasnormalizedthe

blackballingofColinKaepernick.A lotof

peoplebasicallytriedtoanswertheques-

tion,DidColinKaepernickconducthim-

selfappropriatelythisweekend?Andsothe

linesofdebatebeginrightnow;they don’t

beginwitha multibillion-dollarbusiness

thathasaneffectivemonopolydepriving

somebodyoftherighttoworkbecausethey

don’t like what they said,whileat thesame

timegrantingthat righttoworktopeople

who have all sorts of issues. Here we are,

debating whether Colin Kaepernick should

have worn a Kunta Kinte shirt. Meanwhile,

RichieIncognito^11 is fine.It’sa reallesson

that,despitewhateverprogress,whenyou

havepower, youcandohorrible,inhu-

mane,deeplywrongthings,andyoucan

normalizethosethings.

Inmany ways,thisKaepernickthingis a

perfect emblem of white supremacy

becausetheycallyoutheday ofthetryout

andtellyouyougottwohourstodecide,

butit’ s eitherthisway ornoway. Butwe

nevertake a secondtoanalyzewhy arewe

fightingonthisground?I thinkthat mir-

roreda largerframeforthepoliticsthat

happenedinthiserawithObamaand

everythingaroundrace.

Butatthesametime,Kaepernickgot

the30th-anniversary“JustDoIt”Nike

campaign.He’sbeinglionizedinthisother

sphere, whichisa relatedsphere.

They’reunrelatedintermsofwhothey

thinktheirbaseis.Nike,at least part ofits

legitimacy, it feels,comesfromthestreets,

andwhoit sellstoisyoungpeople.But

I take yourpoint.It’svery differentthan

MuhammadAli,right?Therewasnoplace

forMuhammadAlitogo tointhat same

sortofway. AndI thinkpart ofthat is the

realprogressthathashappenedintermsof

howblackpeopleareseeninthewider

society. Evenyoungpeople,youprobably

couldn’t haveputMuhammadAliinanad

in 1968 ordonewhatwasdonewithColin

Kaepernick.He’s eatingjust fineina way

thatMuhammadAliwasnot.

WhatdoyoumakeofObama’spost-

presidency?

I don’t know. I understandthepresi-

dentsaying,“Listen,I’mnotgoingtocom-

mentonthedoingsofmysuccessor.”

That’sthetradition,right?ButI thinkit

putsinstarkrelief someofthethings

Obamaiswillingtocommenton.^12 It ’s a

littletoughtohear—inthemidst ofthe

administrationpursuinga policy that lit-

erallyputschildrenincages,thepresident

braggingaboutsexualassault,insulting

somebodyinrealtimewhiletheytestify

beforeCongress,claimingduringhiscam-

paignthatsomebodycan’t behisjudge

because,inhisword,he’s a Mexican—it’s

4 Wallacelostin hisfirstrun

forgovernorof Alabama

in 1958to JohnMalcolm

Patterson,buthewould

goonto becomeone

of themostprominent

segregationistpoliticians,

campaigningforpresident

fourtimesin the

Democraticprimaries.

5 Jenkinswroteand

directed2016’s

Moonlight,whichwon

theOscarforBest

Picture.Twoyears

later,hisadapted

screenplayforIf Beale

StreetCouldTalkwas

nominatedbutlostto

BlacKkKlansman.

6 Ward’s 2011 novel

followsEsch,whois

15 andpregnant,and

herpoverty-stricken

familyastheyprepare

forandlivethrough

HurricaneKatrinain

thetownof Bois

Sauvage,Mississippi.

7 A sequelto the

Rockyfilmseries,

Creedwaswritten

anddirectedby

RyanCoogler,

whowouldgoon

to makeBlack

Panther.

PHOTOGRAPHS: PREVIOUS SPREAD, SEBASTIAN KIM/AUGUST. THIS SPREAD, WENN RIGHTS LTD

/ ALAMY

STOCK PHOTO (OBAMA); JOSHUA LOTT/GETTY IMAGES (TEA PARTY); CHIP

SOMODEVILLA/GETTY IMAGES (CHARLOTTESVILLE); KEVIN WINTER/GETTY IMAGES (JENKINS); ALBERTO E. RODRIGUEZ/GETTY IMAGES FOR DISNEY (COOGLER)