november25–december8, 2019 | newyork 59sites were all linking to each other and talk-
ing to each other, and the left-wing sites
were being checked by these mainstream
sites. But Breitbart was off in its own space
creating its own reality. When Trump gave
his first speeches, immigration wasn’t the
biggest thing he talked about, but he got
good reactions from the crowd and, almost
like a stand-up comic or musician, he
learned to change based on that. Breitbart
wasdoingthesamethingonline,testing
messagesandseeingwhat kindsofthings
gotengagement.
Isn’tthatwhateveryoneinmediais
doing?
BuzzFeed’snottryingtogetanyone
elected.Themainstreammediaandthe
left-wingmediakeepeachotherincheck,
andFox NewsandBreitbart arekindofout
thereontheirownandaremuchmore
focusedonpoliticaloutcomes,whichis not
reallythecasewiththemainstreammedia
andeventheleft-wingmedia.There’sa
feelingof,Well,it’s notfair, becausethe
rightcanmemeTrumptothepresidency
withthingsthatareinaccurate.Andthen
theleft feelslike,Oh,if I dosomething,then
theNewYorkTimesisgoingtowritean
articlethatsaysthisisinaccurate.And
thenallmyfriendsaregoingtoreadthat
article.Youknow?
Canwetalkaboutthepublicationof
theSteeledossier^5 inthatcontext?I’m
wonderingaboutthedecisiontopublish
anunredacteddocumentovertheobjec-
tionsoftraditional-mediagatekeepers.
It ’s a philosophicaldifference.In theera
ofindustrialmedia—newspapers,broad-
cast television—themediathoughtofitself
asa gatekeeperandwasa gatekeeper.
Thereweregoodthingsaboutthat model.
Now, withtheinternet, informationcango
viraluncheckedbyanyone,just uploaded
toa platform.We liveina totallydifferent
environment,whereinformationcanbe
peer-to-peer;it canbespreadtogroups.
Theplatformswouldloveit if they hadto
spendnomoneyonmediaorcontentand
usersjustputupallmediaandcontent.If
youthinkofyourselfasa gatekeeper,you’re
deludingyourself.
Were the 20 10sthedecadeofsocial?Yeah.Theinternet startedoutwithnota
verydeepmetricforengagement,whichis
impressions.Googlefiguredoutthat you
couldactuallylookat whethersomeone
clicked.AndthenFacebookwasabletosay,
well,sharingis anevendeeperconnection
becauseyou’resayingsomethingisn’t just
worthclickingonforyourself. Thatadded
socialvalidationandthepeopleinyourlife
totheinternet.
Italsoinvolvesa lotofsurveillance.
Tome,thepromiseofit is notjust sur-
veillanceofpeopletomakemoremoney off
ofthem.It ’s like liveperformanceinthe
sensethatyou’reriffingwiththeaudience.
If you’rea stand-upcomicandyouhavea
jokeandyoutellit andnoonelaughs,yousay, “Oh, I got to rework that joke.” And you
try it a different way and you add a little
thing andthen younotice, “Oh, they
laughedatthewrongpart. Why wasthat?”
Oh,maybethat’sbecausethere’s another
thingthat’s funny init,andthenyouendup
witha greatjoke. Thatdoesn’t make youa
badstand-upcomic.Thatmakesyoua
goodstand-upcomic—solongasyoudon’t
justpandertotheaudienceandactually
havea voiceora visionorsomethingyou
wanttocommunicate.
Howdoyouthinkthathasaffected
newsjournalism?Doyouthinktheway
journalistswriteisdifferentnowthatthey
havethatimmediatefeedback?
There’sa senseofbeingmoreaccount-
abletotheaudience.Youcannolonger
writea long,boringstory andimaginethat
everyonereadsit just ’causeit wasinthe
New YorkTimes.A lotofthebiggeststories
arenowbeingdrivenbytheonlinereac-
tion.I don’t thinktheMe Toomovementis
justa heroicact ofjournalism;it’s that
every timethere’s a story,theonlinedistri-
butionofthatstoryresultsinnewvictims
andnewsourcesemerging,andthenit cre-
atesa newurgencyforthesubjectsofthe
story, whoarenolongerabletokeeptheir
jobsoravoidscrutiny.
IstheStanford JaneDoevictim-impact
statement^6 anexampleofa story thatwas
generatedbythatkindofback-and-forth?
Sheprovidedthelettertousbecauseshe
hadreadKatieJ.M.Baker’sreportingon
sexualabuseoncampusesandknewthat
wehadbotha greatteamofreporterswho
taketheseissuesseriouslyanda huge
globalaudiencethatcaresaboutthem.We
alsohavea reallyyoungaudience;a lotof
young women readBuzzFeed.Sexual
abuseoncampuseswasa bigstory that
wasn’t beingcoveredthat muchwhenwe
startedtoreallybreaka bunchofstoriesin
thatarea.We knowwhat ouraudience
caresaboutbetterbecause,well,they’re
onlineandwe’reonlinewiththem.
Therearefearsthat peoplehavethat
awarenessofyouraudiencewilldriveyou
tostoriesabouttheKardashiansandnotto
goodjournalism.Butinmany cases,it’s
issuesthatareurgentlyimportanttoyoung(^45) Whileothernews 6
organizationsdanced
aroundallegationsthat
so on-to-be-President
Tr umphadbeen
co mpromisedby a
fo reignpower,BuzzFeed
to okthecontroversialstep
of publishingtheentirety
of theSteeledossier,th e
do cumentthatgave
usthefabledpeetape.
Oneof
Bu zzFeed’s
biggestviral
st orieswas the
fu ll textof
a le tterthat
Br ockTurner’s
se xual-assault
vi ctim,Chanel
Miller,re ad
to himin court.
Oneof BuzzFeedNews’s
fi rstmoveswas to hire
a youngreporternamed
AndrewKaczynski,
whoseprimaryproject
was findingdamning
hi storicalmaterialthat
of tenexposedpoliticians
asflip-floppersand
hypocrites.
In the book,
Jo shuaGreen
qu otesBannon
sa yingPeretti
was“walkingme
thr oughthe tech
si deof the
business.”
(“ Guy’sa genius,”
headded.)
I was like,
OhmyGod,
I inspired
Steve Bannon.
PHOTOGRAPHS: FOLLOWING SPREAD, BUZZFEEDVIDEO/YOUTUBE (UNDERWEAR); TASTY/FACEBOOK (BAGELS); BUZZFEED/FACEBOOK (WATERMELON)