The Washington Post - 14.11.2019

A6 EZ SU THE WASHINGTON POST.THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 14 , 2019

HOUSE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS

that hired Hunter Biden to sit on

its board while his father was in

office — but both diplomats testi-

fied they saw no evidence the vice

president did anything wrong

when he pushed to oust a Ukrai-

nian prosecutor who was accused

of being corrupt and who had

investigated the company.

Trump and Giuliani have

pushed for Ukraine to open inves-

tigations into both Bidens over

Hunter’s role with the company,

Burisma.

Democrats have scheduled tes-

timony from several additional

witnesses, many of whom have

already testified privately that

they were bewildered and con-

cerned by Trump’s decision to

withhold the aid over the sum-

mer. Marie Yovanovitch, a former

U.S. ambassador to Ukraine who

Kent said was targeted by a

Giuliani-led “smear campaign,” is

scheduled to testify Friday.

Sondland, who is slated to tes-

tify on Wednesday, has previously

amended his closed-door testi-

mony to confirm that he told

Ukrainian officials that military

aid and an Oval Office meeting

were conditioned on a public

announcement of corruption in-

vestigations.

Taylor’s testimony raises the

stakes for Sondland, who will

certainly be asked about the

July 26 phone call in which

Trump allegedly inquired about

“investigations.”

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

Michael Kranish, Colby Itkowitz and

Elise Viebeck contributed to this

report.

Republicans, meanwhile, de-

fended the president with a strat-

egy that at times seemed scatter-

shot and disorganized. The par-

ty’s most dogged defender, Rep.

Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), didn’t get to

speak until nearly four hours into

the hearing, leaving it to House

Intelligence Committee ranking

Republican Devin Nunes (Calif.)

to lead the defense of Trump.

Republican counsel Stephen R.

Castor also got off to a slow start

as he tried to get the witnesses to

testify that Ukraine had a corrup-

tion problem. Kent and Taylor

agreed to that but did not link

Trump’s specific effort targeting

the Bidens to a strategy of com-

bating corruption in Ukraine

broadly. GOP commentators on

Twitter criticized Castor, saying it

was unclear where he was going

with his questions.

“Whatever the GOP counsel is

doing, it’s not working. I don’t

under[s]tand where he’s going,”

wrote Ari Fleischer, the former

White House press secretary for

President George W. Bush.

At one point, Castor sought to

play down conversations with

Ukraine that took place outside

the normal State Department

channels of communication, say-

ing that they could have been

even more abnormal.

“This irregular channel of di-

plomacy, it is not as outlandish as

it could be, is that correct?” Cas-

tor asked.

“It is not as outlandish as it

could be, I agree,” Taylor conced-

ed, with a chuckle.

Castor did get Kent to elabo-

rate on his serious concerns

about alleged corruption sur-

rounding a natural gas company

Trump.

White House press secretary

Stephanie Grisham echoed the

GOP attempt to play down the

diplomats’ testimony as mere

hearsay.

“The latest ‘evidence’ is an

anonymous staffer who told

someone he overheard someone

else talking to POTUS on the

phone,” she said in a statement

Wednesday. “All the ‘evidence’ in

this case is 2nd and 3rd hand

hearsay.”

Overall, Democrats said the

hearing bolstered their case that

Trump abused his power, validat-

ing the party’s strategy of relying

on credible and experienced dip-

lomats to shine a spotlight on

alleged wrongdoing in the Oval

Office.

Both Taylor and Kent repeated-

ly contradicted key GOP talking

points as Republicans sought

ways to stand up for Trump. In an

exchange with Rep. Jim Himes

(D-Conn.), Kent testified that

Trump’s request that Ukraine in-

vestigate the Bidens was not a

coordinated anti-corruption

strategy that fell in line with a

years-long U.S. effort to reduce

corruption in that country.

“I do not think they are the

same thing,” Kent said.

At another point, Rep. Eric

Swalwell (D-Calif.) asked Kent

whether it was true, as Mulvaney

said, that quid pro quos happen

in foreign policy “all the time.”

Kent said it was not.

Kent also contradicted the

GOP suggestion that Ukraine

may have interfered in the U.S.

election, one suggestion Republi-

cans have floated for why Trump

pushed for such investigations.

process.

Democrats displayed a large

screen with a video clip from an

Oct. 17 news conference by acting

White House chief of staff Mick

Mulvaney, where he said that

Trump engaged in a quid pro quo

conditioning almost $400 mil-

lion in military aid for Ukraine on

an investigation into Democrats.

He later accused the media of

distorting what he said.

During the hearing, Democrats

highlighted the lengthy, nonpar-

tisan résumés of Kent and Taylor,

who have served the country for

decades. Taylor, a decorated Viet-

nam War veteran, received the

bulk of Democratic questioning,

speaking in a slow and serious

manner as he described his con-

cern that Trump and his personal

attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani had

placed their political and person-

al concerns ahead of the United

States’ national security interests.

“The official foreign policy of

the United States was undercut

by the irregular efforts of Mr.

Giuliani,” Taylor said.

Republican lawmakers coun-

tered that Trump should not be

impeached because he eventually

released his freeze on the military

assistance and met face to face

with Zelensky without Ukraine

announcing the investigations he

had requested into the Bidens

and the 2016 election. The aid

was released Sept. 11, shortly after

Congress was informed about the

whistleblower’s report.

Republicans also described the

witnesses as unelected bureau-

crats with no direct information

about Trump’s intentions. They

emphasized that neither Kent nor

Taylor have met or spoken with

probe.

“I move that we subpoena the

whistleblower,” Rep. K. Michael

Conaway (R-Tex.) said near the

beginning of the testimony.

Democrats, who later voted

down the GOP attempt to ques-

tion the whistleblower, have an-

nounced additional witness testi-

mony slated for next week, in-

cluding a high-profile hearing

featuring Sondland.

They also scheduled a Friday

closed-door deposition of David

Holmes, the aide to Taylor who

overheard Sondland’s alleged call

from a restaurant in Kyiv with

Trump.

The president lashed out

against the impeachment process

throughout the day, a venting

session that began on Twitter and

continued during his meetings at

the White House with Erdogan.

“This is a sham, and it

shouldn’t be allowed,” Trump said

during the news conference. “I

want to find out who is the

whistleblower.”

While Trump claimed that he

did not watch the hearings, it was

clear that lawmakers were play-

ing to the cameras as the im-

peachment process that began in

September entered its most pub-

lic phase yet.

Republicans placed placards in

the hearing room, including one

with a partial quote from Rep. Al

Green (D-Tex.), who said on tele-

vision this year that “I’m con-

cerned if we don’t impeach this

president, he will get reelected.”

Several GOP lawmakers occa-

sionally raised their voices and

gesticulated as they questioned

the witnesses or raised objections

to Democrats’ handling of the

“Ambassador Sondland told Pres-
ident Trump that the Ukrainians
were ready to move forward.”
Taylor said that at the conclusion
of the call, his aide asked Sond-
land what Trump thought of
Ukraine and Sondland respond-
ed that “President Trump cares
more about the investigations of
Biden.”
Sondland’s attorney said
Wednesday that his client will
address Taylor’s account when he
testifies before Congress next
week.
Trump said he had no recollec-
tion of the call.
“I know nothing about that,” he
said during a news conference
Wednesday at the White House
with Turkish President Recep
Tayyip Erdogan. “First time I’ve
heard it.”
Taylor’s testimony about the
phone call was one of the few new
revelations during the opening
impeachment hearing that ended
with Democrats and Republicans
more firmly entrenched behind
their established battle lines.
While the testimony of Taylor
and Deputy Assistant Secretary
of State George Kent presented a
damning public account of a
president using his office to ad-
vance his political interests, Re-
publican lawmakers remained
steadfast in defending Trump as
he faced his greatest political
threat.
Several pushed to hear from
the anonymous whistleblower
whose report documenting con-
cerns about Trump’s alleged
wrongdoing toward Ukraine ulti-
mately led to the impeachment

IMPEACHMENT FROM A

President’s allies push to play down officials’ accounts

BONNIE JO MOUNT/THE WASHINGTON POST

Acting ambassador to Ukraine William B. Taylor Jr., second from right at table, and Deputy Assistant Secretary of State George Kent, third from right at table, testify before House investigators on Wednesday.

ing.” Eric Trump, the president’s

younger son, labeled the proceed-

ings “horribly boring.”

Mike Rothschild, a researcher

and author who specializes in de-

bunking conspiracy theories, said

coaxing the public not to watch

would be effective for the people

already prepared to line up behind

the president. “But it seems a bit

desperate,” he added, born of an

inability to “refute anything that

the witnesses are claiming.”

But there were probably many

Americans, said Nyhan, the politi-

cal scientist, who don’t follow on-

line news closely, and who may

have been tuning in for the first

time on Wednesday.

For these viewers, the narrative

spun by Nunes would prove diffi-

cult to comprehend.

“Most Americans aren’t watch-

ing Hannity every night,” he said,

referring to Sean Hannity, the Fox

News host and Trump confidant.

“I can’t imagine a normal person

would understand what he’s talk-

ing about.”

isaac.stanley-becker@

washpost.com

Felicia Sonmez contributed to this

report.

The malleability of facts

emerged as a broader GOP talking

point. Rep. Mark Meadows

(R-N.C.), a Trump ally, affirmed as

much to reporters in the Capitol

on Wednesday. “I think what hap-

pens is, when we start to look at

the facts, everybody has their im-

pression of what truth is,” he said.

Many of the president’s most ar-

dent supporters declined altogeth-

er to view the hearings as a legiti-

mate source of facts. In some of the

largest pro-Trump groups on Face-

book, memes circulated exhorting

users to boycott the hearing. “These

impeachment hearings of our Pres-

ident will be nothing but one-sided

showboating by the dems,” read

one graphic, posted in 212,000-

member strong “Trump For Presi-

dent 2020” group. “Boycott it!”

The call was in line with messag-

ing put out by conservative media.

Breitbart called the hearing a

“Snoozer.” The Gateway Pundit

complained in a headline that Tay-

lor “Won’t Stop Talking!”

These outlets seemed to take

their cues from the White House

and members of the president’s

family. Stephanie Grisham, the

White House press secretary,

tweeted that the hearing was “bor-

posed Russian intrusions into

Democratic computers in 2016.

Trump, contrary to evidence,

seems to believe that the California

firm was involved in hiding the

compromised server in Ukraine

and passing the blame to Russia.

“To be honest, I had not heard of

CrowdStrike until I read this tran-

script on Sept. 25,” Kent said, refer-

ring to Trump’s mention of the

company during his phone call

with Ukrainian President Volod-

ymyr Zelensky.

Asked whether there was any

“factual basis” to support the

claim of Ukrainian interference in

the 2016 election, Kent replied,

“To my knowledge, there is no

factual basis, no.”

His confidence, which echoes

the conclusions of the intelligence

committee that it was Russia that

interfered in the 2016 race, did not

stop Nunes from insisting on con-

spiracy theories about “Ukrainian

election meddling.” Nor did it pre-

vent Castor from asking Taylor to

affirm that there were “many facts

that remain unresolved” about the

2016 election.

Taylor appeared bewildered.

“I’m sorry, what’s the question?”

he sought to clarify.

then-candidate Trump.

Republicans pointed to an op-

ed by Ukraine’s ambassador to the

United States, published in the

summer of 2016, that criticized

comments by Trump signaling the

Republican nominee’s openness

to recognizing Russia’s annexa-

tion of the Crimean Peninsula.

And they highlighted information

leaked during the campaign about

Ukrainian business dealings by

then-Trump campaign chairman

Paul Manafort.

“Officials showed a surprising

lack of interest in the indications

of Ukrainian election meddling

that deeply concerned the presi-

dent at whose pleasure they

serve,” Nunes said.

Ukraine experts have dismissed

the idea that the activities cited by

Nunes and other Republicans are

in any way comparable to the

sweeping interference campaign

pursued to Trump’s benefit by the

Kremlin. And at Wednesday’s

hearing, Democrats sought to

pierce the GOP’s reliance on these

theories.

Daniel S. Goldman, who led the

questioning for the Democrats,

asked Kent about a cybersecurity

firm called CrowdStrike, which ex-

and others trained their attention

on the same scene on Wednesday

— giving viewers from each world

a rare glimpse into the other.

“The viewer encounters two

competing sets of factual claims,”

said Brendan Nyhan, a political

scientist at Dartmouth College. “I

imagine it’s quite bewildering,”

Questions on Wednesday by Re-

publican members of the House

Intelligence Committee ranged

widely, with some seeking to de-

fend the president by emphasiz-

ing that military aid to Ukraine,

while stalled, was ultimately re-

leased. Others sought to discredit

the witnesses by noting that they

lacked firsthand knowledge of

some of the events they described.

The White House has moved to

block witnesses with more direct

knowledge of the president’s deal-

ings from testifying.

But questions by the Republican

attorney, Stephen R. Castor, as well

as by Rep. Devin Nunes (Calif.), the

House Intelligence Committee’s

top Republican, dwelled extensive-

ly on claims about Ukrainian inter-

ference in the 2016 election, and

the perception by some of the presi-

dent’s allies that the nation’s gov-

ernment sought to undermine

Trump’s own Twitter feed, relies
largely on conspiracy theories and
cover stories — some of which
have taken root in the farthest
reaches of the Internet before per-
colating up to the Oval Office —
about Ukraine’s influence on the
2016 election and Biden’s reasons
for going after a Ukrainian prose-
cutor who was widely viewed by
Western powers as corrupt.
Those two divergent worlds col-
lided on Wednesday in stark fash-
ion with the start of the probe’s
public hearings.
For the first time, the competing
claims found a shared audience in
the same congressional hearing
room, as Taylor appeared alongside
George Kent, the senior State De-
partment official in charge of
Ukraine. The first two witnesses
stood in for the public at large in
encountering not just two different
interpretations of the facts — but
two separate sets of factual claims.
The competing information
streams are epitomized by MSN-
BC and CNN, which have reported
heavily on the impeachment in-
quiry, and Fox News, Trump’s fa-
vorite network. But those outlets

NARRATIVES FROM A

Competing claims about Trump’s actions collide during first public testimony