The Washington Post - 14.11.2019

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 14 , 2019. THE WASHINGTON POST EZ SU A

HOUSE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS

BY ELISE VIEBECK

After weeks in which Presi-
dent Trump’s top aides have fig-
ured as the major players in the
Ukraine narrative, testimony in
the first few hours of the public
impeachment hearings Wednes-
day thrust Trump himself back to
center stage.
Acting ambassador to Ukraine
William B. Taylor Jr. told law-
makers about a previously un-
known effort by the president to
make sure Ukraine was looking
into his political opponents: a
phone conversation he said
Trump had with a top U.S. diplo-
mat asking about the status of
“the investigations.”
The phone conversation de-
scribed by Taylor gave Democrats
a chance to renew questions
about Trump’s personal involve-
ment in the effort to push
Ukraine to investigate his politi-
cal opponents while the United
States withheld security assis-
tance and a sought-after White
House meeting.
Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) said
he would be “glad to have the
person who started it all come in
and testify.”
“President Trump is welcome
to take a seat right there,” Welch
said, gesturing to the witness
desk.
On Wednesday afternoon,
Trump denied any knowledge of
the phone call described by Tay-
lor.
“I know nothing about that,”
Trump said during a White
House news conference with
Turkish President Recep Tayyip
Erdogan. “First time I’ve heard it.

... I don’t recall, not at all, not
even a little bit.”
Before Wednesday, the presi-
dent had surfaced in two key
moments: a May 23 Oval Office
meeting, in which he told U.S.
officials to confer with his per-
sonal attorney Rudolph W. Guil-
iani on Ukraine policy, and a
July 25 phone call when he asked
Ukrainian President Volodymyr
Zelensky to investigate Demo-
crats.
Taylor kicked off the first pub-
lic hearing of the impeachment
inquiry by describing another act
by Trump — a phone conversa-
tion he said the president had
with U.S. Ambassador to the
European Union Gordon Sond-
land a day after the call between
the two presidents.
Taylor told lawmakers that his
aide was accompanying Sond-
land during a July 26 visit to Kyiv
when, in a restaurant, Sondland
phoned Trump to update him
about meetings he was having in
the city, including a sit-down
with a top Zelensky adviser.
Taylor said that the aide over-
heard Trump ask Sondland about
“the investigations” and that
Sondland told the president the
Ukrainians were “ready to move
forward.”
Taylor said his aide later asked
Sondland what Trump thought
about Ukraine. Sondland said
that Trump cared “more about
the investigations of Biden,
which Giuliani was pressing for,”
Taylor testified.
Sondland told reporters in
Ukraine on July 27 that he spoke
to Trump after the Zelensky call,
but it is unclear if he was refer-
ring to the same conversation
that Taylor described.
Sondland attorney Robert
Luskin said in an email to The
Washington Post that his client
“will address any issues that arise
from this in his testimony next
week,” when he is scheduled to
testify in another open hearing.
Taylor’s account of the call
undercuts Trump’s recent claims
that he doesn’t know Sondland,
whom he called a “really good
man and great American” in a
tweet last month.
But last week, Trump told
reporters at the White House,
“Let me just tell you: I hardly
know the gentleman.” The presi-
dent’s comment came after Sond-
land reversed his previous testi-
mony in the impeachment inqui-
ry, acknowledging that he told a
Ukrainian official in September
that U.S. military aid probably
would resume only if the Kyiv
government opened Trump’s de-
sired investigations.
Taylor said he had not provid-
ed his account to investigators
during his Oct. 22 closed-door
deposition because his staff
member told him about the epi-
sode only last Friday.
“I am including it here for
completeness,” Taylor said of the
information, adding that “it is my
understanding that the commit-
tee is following up on this mat-
ter.”
Taylor said he also reported
the story through counsel to the
House Intelligence Committee
and the State Department’s legal
adviser.
The aide who overheard Sond-
land’s call with the president is

embassy staffer David Holmes, who will testify Friday behind closed doors in the House’s impeachment probe, according to two people familiar with the investigation. Holmes is the top political affairs officer at the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine. Holmes received an award from the State Department in 2014 for speaking up internally

against the Obama administra- tion’s policy on Afghanistan, po- tentially complicating any Re- publican plans to paint him as a liberal partisan. The William R. Rivkin Award acknowledges a mid-level Foreign Service officer and recognizes the value of dis- sent, according to the American Foreign Service Association jour- nal.

Trump’s first known role in the effort to pressure Ukraine took place in the Oval Office meeting May 23, when he instructed a U.S. delegation that had just returned from Zelensky’s inau- guration to “talk to Rudy,” refer- ring to Giuliani, about Ukraine policy, according to witness testimony. “Rudy had some bad issues

with Ukraine, and until Rudy was satisfied, the president wasn’t going to change his mind,” Sondland said in a closed-door deposition. Two months later, during the July 25 phone call, Trump told Zelensky that “whatever you can do” to investigate former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden “would be great”

and urged him to speak with Giuliani and Attorney General William P. Barr. “We will get to the bottom of it,” Trump said. “I’m sure you will figure it out.” [email protected]

Aaron C. Davis, Josh Dawsey, Karoun Demirjian, Karen DeYoung and Anne Gearan contributed to this report.

Description of call with envoy ties Trump more directly to Kyiv campaign

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