The Wall Street Journal - 14.11.2019

A6| Thursday, November 14, 2019 THE WALL STREET JOURNAL.**

tions pushed for in Ukraine

were a necessary means of

fighting corruption in the

country. They also at times

sought to build a case for fur-

ther examination of unsubstan-

tiated theories that it was

Ukraine, and not Russia, that

interfered in the 2016 election,

and they called for more infor-

mation about a whistleblower

whose initial complaint about

the president triggered the im-

peachment inquiry.

“If there actually were indi-

cations of Ukraine election

meddling, and foreign election

meddling is a dire threat, then

President Trump would have a

perfectly good reason for

wanting to find out what hap-

pened,” said Rep. Devin Nunes

of California, the top Republi-

can on the House Intelligence

Committee.

The witnesses, however,

said there was little merit to

the investigations the presi-

dent sought. Mr. Kent, asked

for the basis for allegations by

Mr. Trump and his lawyer

Rudy Giuliani against Mr. Biden

and his son Hunter, said he had

“none whatsoever.” He also

said the former vice presi-

dent’s anticorruption efforts in

Ukraine while he was in office

were important, though he ac-

knowledged that the reputa-

tion of a Ukrainian company

whose board Hunter Biden

served on was mixed. He also

said there was “no factual ba-

sis” for allegations of Ukrai-

nian election interference.

Democrats also contested

Republicans’ assertions that

the president was seeking to

combat corruption broadly be-

yond what would help him po-

litically. “I don’t think Presi-

dent Trump was trying to end

corruption in Ukraine,” said

Rep. Jim Himes (D., Conn.). “I

think he was trying to aim cor-

ruption in Ukraine at Vice

President Biden and at the

2020 election.”

Mr. Taylor on Wednesday

reiterated that he saw a link

between the aid to Ukraine and

investigations Mr. Trump

wanted the country to pursue.

In a new disclosure, Mr. Taylor

said that since testifying be-

hind closed doors, he had

heard from a member of his

staff who was present for a

July 26 call between Gordon

Sondland, the ambassador to

the European Union, and the

president. In the call, which

took place a day after Mr.

Trump’s own phone call with

Ukrainian President Volodymyr

Zelensky, Mr. Trump asked Mr.

Sondland about “the investiga-

tions.” Mr. Sondland, who had

met with Mr. Zelensky that

day, replied that the Ukrainians

were “ready to move forward,”

Mr. Taylor testified.

“Following the call with

President Trump, the member

tions concerned them.

“Was Mr. Giuliani promoting

U.S. national interest or policy

in Ukraine?” Rep. Val Demings

(D., Fla.) asked the witnesses.

“I don’t think so, ma’am,”

Mr. Taylor replied. “No he was

not,” Mr. Kent said. “I believe

he was looking to dig up politi-

cal dirt against a potential ri-

val in the next election cycle.”

Mr. Taylor agreed.

Both witnesses also said

they were deeply concerned by

the president’s push for inves-

tigations, especially as it re-

lated to congressionally ap-

proved aid to Ukraine.

“It’s one thing to try to le-

verage a meeting in the White

House,” Mr. Taylor testified.

“It’s another thing, I thought,

to leverage security assistance,

security assistance to a coun-

try at war dependent on both

the security assistance and the

demonstration of support. It

was much more alarming.”

Mr. Taylor’s testimony also

rebutted efforts by the White

House to portray any link be-

tween aid and investigations as

routine. “Have you ever seen

another example of foreign aid

conditioned on the personal or

political interests of the presi-

dent of the United States?”

asked Daniel Goldman, a for-

mer federal prosecutor now

serving on the House Intelli-

gence Committee staff.

“No, Mr. Goldman, I’ve not,”

Mr. Taylor replied.

House Democrats are seek-

ing to use public hearings to

build more support for remov-

ing the president from office. A

recent Wall Street Journal/NBC

News poll found a slim major-

ity of Americans—53%—said

they approved of the impeach-

ment inquiry, compared to 44%

who said they disapproved.

Some 49% said Mr. Trump

should be impeached and re-

moved from office, while 46%

said they opposed such mea-

sures.

The hearing on Wednesday

kicked off a series of public de-

positions over the next week.

On Friday, the nation will hear

testimony by Marie Yovano-

vitch, the former ambassador

to Ukraine who was ousted by

Mr. Trump this spring after he

heard concerns from Mr. Giu-

liani and others that she was

obstructing the investigations

the president wanted Ukraine

to undertake. Next week, eight

more witnesses are scheduled

to testify in open session.

Steve Castor, the Republican

staff member who conducted

much of the GOP questioning

on Wednesday, made an un-

usual argument in defense of

Mr. Giuliani’s involvement in a

foreign-policy channel on

Ukraine that the witnesses de-

scribed as concerning.

“This irregular channel of

diplomacy, it’s not as outland-

ish as it could be, is that cor-

rect?” he asked. A smiling Mr.

Taylor replied: “It’s not as out-

landish as it could be.”

of my staff asked Ambassador

Sondland what President

Trump thought about Ukraine,”

Mr. Taylor testified. “Ambassa-

dor Sondland responded that

President Trump cares more

about the investigations of Bi-

den.”

At a news conference

Wednesday with Turkish Presi-

dent Recep Tayyip Erdogan,

Mr. Trump denied knowledge

of a phone call with Mr. Sond-

land, a hotelier who had been a

Trump donor.

“I know nothing about that.

First time I’ve heard it,” the

president said in response to a

question, describing the allega-

tion of the call as “secondhand

information.”

The disclosure undercut an

argument by the president’s al-

lies that Mr. Trump’s request

to Mr. Zelensky for investiga-

tions, visible in a rough tran-

script of the July 25 that the

White House has released,

were passing comments. Mr.

Giuliani, in a Wall Street Jour-

nal guest opinion piece on

Tuesday, wrote: “Out of a five-

page transcript Mr. Trump

spent only six lines on Joe Bi-

den.”

The witnesses, who both

have decades of public service

under administrations of both

parties, repeatedly said they

weren’t seeking to take sides in

the inquiry. But both said they

were alarmed by what they de-

scribed as dual channels of

conducting foreign policy to-

ward Ukraine—one of them led

by Mr. Giuliani—and that the

president’s push for investiga-

The witnesses

repeatedly said they

weren’t seeking to

take sides.

U.S. NEWS

hearing room at the Long-

worth House Office Building.

By midmorning, as Capitol Po-

lice prepared to open the

doors, spirits were high.

Anne Coffelt, 68 years old,

got in line at 6 a.m., deter-

mined to be among those al-

lowed into the room to watch

the testimony live. “It’s amaz-

ingly going to happen,” she

said, almost giddy.

“I came because it’s a his-

toric moment in the history of

this country,” said Ms. Coffelt,

who flew from California for

the hearing. “There was An-

drew Johnson, there was [Bill]

Clinton, there was [Richard]

Nixon, and now there’s this ex-

perience,” she said, referring

to the other presidents subject

to impeachment proceedings.

Ahead of Ms. Coffelt in line

was Dwight Ritter, 68, an at-

torney who vividly remembers

watching the Watergate hear-

ings “gavel to gavel” in the

1970s. “Tried never to miss a

minute of it,” he said.

Bill Condell, 58, a retiree,

joined the line at 5:30 a.m. af-

ter biking from his home in

northwest Washington. It was

too early to take the Metro,

which hadn’t opened yet, but

for Mr. Condell, a politics en-

thusiast, this was his Super

Bowl. Like his newfound

friends Mr. Ritter and Ms. Cof-

felt, he was prepared to forgo

food and bathroom breaks to

keep his seat in the hearing,

no matter how long it took.

“You know, people have their

interest in sports, and so they

go and attend games. People

love art and they go to muse-

ums. I love following the ins

and outs of politics,” Mr. Con-

dell said. “Especially right now.”

Down the hall, a drag queen

from the New York area drew

curious looks. Pissi Myles, 31,

had driven overnight to Wash-

ington to cover the hearing as

special correspondent for

Happs News, a live-streaming

news program on Twitter and

Periscope aimed at students.

“I got about an hour’s sleep

last night, but I have a Red

Bull in my bag and we’re going

to power through this,” Ms.

Myles said.

In many ways, business

went on as usual on the Hill.

Tourists wandered by. The

House held hearings about the

costs and production chal-

lenges of F-35 fighter aircraft,

the “Youth Tobacco Epidemic”

and the infrastructure needs of

the Smithsonian Institution.

On the Senate side of the

Capitol, judicial nominees tes-

tified at confirmation hear-

ings, and lawmakers grilled of-

ficials about lung illnesses and

vaping. The Senate voted to

confirm a new undersecretary

for the Department of Home-

land Security, Chad Wolf.

Many Democrats made an

effort to catch the impeach-

ment-hearing coverage when-

ever they could. Sen. Brian

Schatz (D., Hawaii) said he was

watching on his phone in be-

tween meetings. Sen. Tim

Kaine (D., Va.) peeked in be-

tween hearings and votes, and

tasked his staff with filling him

in on any developments that

he missed. He planned to go

back to review the transcript

or video of major testimony.

But some Republicans said

they didn’t plan to watch

much, if at all. “Oh, I’m actu-

ally working. I have a job. I

just came from a hearing on

vaping illness, voting,” said

Sen. Rand Paul (R., Ky.).

Other Republicans said they

couldn’t watch because they

might need to be impartial ju-

rors in a trial in the Senate. “Oh,

absolutely not,” said Sen. Rich-

ard Shelby (R., Ala.). “I think

that could prejudice my view.”

For lawmakers stressed by

the pressures of the day, there

was some relief in the form of

cuddles with therapy dogs

who were visiting the Hill with

Pet Partners and the Pet In-

dustry Joint Advisory Council.

—Natalie Andrews

contributed to this article.

The atmosphere at the U.S.
Capitol was part sober cere-
mony, part political carnival as
the House’s impeachment in-
quiry held its first public hear-
ing on Wednesday.
There were lawmakers who
watched closely and those who
made a point of skipping it.
There was a self-described
drag queen, and therapy dogs,
and impeachment “junkies”
who started lining up over-
night in hopes of snagging one
of the coveted seats inside the

BYLINDSAYWISE

Outside the Hearing Room, a Carnival

Political junkies and

others came in high

spirits and relished

the historic moment

George Kent, the deputy assistant secretary of state, left, and William Taylor, the acting ambassador to Ukraine, during Wednesday’s hearing on Capitol Hill.

JASON ANDREW FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

parties’ staff counsel and law-
makers on the Democrats’ cen-
tral contention: that Mr.
Trump abused his office by
withholding security aid to
Ukraine just as he was pressing
the country to announce inves-
tigations that he sought, in-
cluding one into his potential
2020 election foe, Democrat
Joe Biden.
House Intelligence Commit-
tee Chairman Adam Schiff (D.,
Calif.), in his opening state-
ment, laid out a top question
his party would pursue:
whether the president sought
to “exploit” Ukraine’s vulnera-
bility as it fights a Russia-
backed insurgency in the east
of the country, and used secu-
rity assistance and a White
House meeting as leverage.
Republicans, in their most
public defense of the president
so far, sought to portray por-
tions of Mr. Taylor’s testimony
as hearsay and said investiga-

ContinuedfromPageOne

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