CULTURE The Conversation
Matt Elton: For people who missed the first season of
As Others See Us, can you explain what the series sets out
to do, and what it covers this time around?
Neil MacGregor: It seemed a good juncture, as Britain sets
to leave the European Union – following the Brexit referen-
dum of 2016 – and operate alone on the world stage, to get a
sense of how other nations view us. Britain is going to have to
renegotiate its position with a whole range of countries around
the world and, as we undertake those negotiations for future
relationships, it’s going to be important to understand a little
better what they think about us.
The first season covered Germany, Egypt, Nigeria, Canada
and India. How did you choose which countries to explore
in the five episodes this year?
We wanted as broad a global range as possible, and to focus
on five countries that have been identified as key partners in
Britain’s future after Brexit.
So, obviously, we needed to address the United States.
But it’s so enormous that we decided we would take a different
approach, focusing on Los Angeles and Boston – two cities
with very different relations to Britain. Boston was, of course,
the old colonial city that rebelled against Britain
in the 18th century, but it was also transformed
by the Irish famine of the 19th century [the city
was a major destination for Irish emigrants].
So it’s a place with historical links to Britain
in two separate ways.
Los Angeles, meanwhile, has never been
part of British North America – but, as
home to Hollywood, it’s a place that
has altered how the world thinks
about Britain.
We also wanted to look at
Australia, because that country
has been talked about by British
politicians as one that is ready
to be an early trade partner in a
post-Brexit world. And, of course,
it is also a country with very long historical and imperial
connections, and in which a large population has direct
links with Britain.
Similarly, we chose Singapore because of Britain’s imperial
role, but also because British politicians have talked in recent
years about Singapore as a model for the UK in the future. We
wanted to find out more about what Singapore [which gained
independence from Britain as part of the Federation of Malay-
sia in 1963] thinks of Britain now, and whether its people think
that, after Brexit, Britain could become Singapore writ large.
Finally, we wanted to choose the two nations inside the
European Union with the greatest connections in terms of
population. Spain has more British people living in it than
any other European country – around 300,000 – while,
conversely, there are well over half a million people from
Poland living in Britain.To get to the heart of the matter, then: is Britain’s history
and its historical relationship with these countries a key
factor in shaping how they now see us?
It is – in every case. W hat is always striking is that, without
exception, these countries seem to know a lot more about us
and our history than we do about them and
theirs. Our view tends to be much more insular,
and restricted to knowing only about the history
of Great Britain and Ireland. But, strikingly,
different parts of history are important for
different nations depending on their preoccupa-
tions, their concerns, and the specific historical
relationship that they had with Britain.What major areas of history are
important in the five nations
you visit?
Perhaps inevitably, for three of the
countries we explore in this season- Australia, Poland and Singapore –
the Second World War plays a very
important part in the way in which
“So much British political
rhetoric is about Britain
at war, and particularly
the Second World War”
BRIEDGEMANThe Spanish Armada,
depicted in a 16th-century
engraving. England’s stand
against Spain has become a
cornerstone of its self-image