Above right and
opposite: the prince
and the doctorVIEWPOINT
Pioneer spirit
It’s an overcast day in Windsor, with
temperamental weather threatening to change
the locale for an exclusive sit-down between
legendary ethologist Dr Jane Goodall and
HRH The Duke of Sussex. “The rain stops
for Jane,” assures Mary Lewis, long-time VP
at the Jane Goodall Institute. And, as it
turns out, not only does the rain stop for Jane –
so do we. Here, a candid conversation about
environment, responsibility and climate change
Prince Harry: Jane, you’ve been known first and foremost
as a world-famous primatologist, but moved at some point
to focus on people and the human issues around conservation.
When did that shift happen and why?
Dr Jane Goodall: It happened in 1986 – I helped to organise
a conference to bring scientists together to learn about
comparative chimp behaviour in different environments. We
had a session on conservation and on conditions in medical
research labs, which was a total shock. I couldn’t sleep after
that. I went as a scientist and left as an activist, a spokesperson
for the environment and for animals. It came to a head when
I flew over tiny Gombe, which had been part of the Equatorial
forest belt in the ’60s and ’70s. But by ’90 it was a tiny island
of forest surrounded by completely bare hills. People were
struggling to survive. That’s when it hit me: if we don’t help
these people, then we can’t even try to save the chimps.
Have you found there’s been more support over the years,
or have you found it harder to raise money for these causes?
[There’s] more support, more awareness. But at the same
time, a lot of apathy. The big message I take around is: every
single person makes some impact on the planet every day.
And you get to choose what you buy, where it comes from.
But the thing you have to do first to make this work is to
alleviate poverty. Because if you’re really poor, you’re going to
cut down the last tree because you’ve got to live. You’re going
to take money to kill an elephant because you have to survive.
You have extreme empathy for all animals, especially primates,
and have connected with them in a way that few to no other
person has. What have you learned from studying chimpanzees?
I have to say my favourite animal absolutely is not a primate,
it’s a dog. I love dogs. When I went to [the University of ]
Cambridge, they told me I couldn’t talk about chimps having
personalities, minds, emotions, and I should have given them
numbers and not names; I had to be objective. It was my dog
who taught me when I was young that they were wrong! We
changed the way science thought. You can now study animal
intellect and animal emotions. [The main difference between
chimps and humans] is we developed a spoken language. I
can tell you about things you haven’t seen, and you can tell
me about things – we can discuss our different viewpoints.
So, how is it possible that the most intellectual creature that’s
ever walked on the planet, that sent a rocket to Mars from
which a little robot crept to take photos, is destroying ouronly home? It seems to be a disconnect between the clever
brain and the heart, love and compassion. And we are now
making decisions, not based on “How will this affect future
generations?” but “How will this affect me, now?” “How will
this affect my next election campaign?” “How will this affect
the next shareholders’ meeting?” We’ve become materialistic,
greedy, and that’s spread through the world.
We are the one species on this planet that seems to think
that this place belongs to us, and only us.
It’s crazy to think we can have unlimited economic development
on a planet with finite natural resources. There’s a lot of
violence and war and suffering around the world today, but
we’re part of the natural world, and if we can’t learn to live
in harmony with it, then this is going to get worse. There
will be more conflicts, people fighting over the last fertile
land, the last fresh water.
What we need to remind everybody is: these are things that
are happening now. We are already living in it. We are the
frog in the water and it’s already been brought to the boil.
Which is terrifying.
Happening and happened. It is terrifying. Especially as
you’ve just had a baby.
[Laughs] I know.
Well, it does make it different, doesn’t it?
It does make it different. I think, weirdly, because of the
people that I’ve met and the places that I’ve been fortunate
enough to go to, I’ve always had a connection and a love for
nature. I view it differently now, without question. But I’ve
always wanted to try and ensure that, even before having a
child and hoping to have children...
Not too many! [Laughs]
Two, maximum! But I’ve always thought: this place is
borrowed. And, surely, being as intelligent as we all are,
or as evolved as we all are supposed to be, we should be able
to leave something better behind for the next generation.
But, in fact, we’ve stolen their future. Not all of it. But we’ve
got to try and pay a little of it back. And get together to try and
heal some of the harm, and at least slow down climate change.
What I love about your work is that you focus on the younger
generation. [ When] you start to peel away all the layers, all
the taught behaviour, the learned behaviour, the experienced
behaviour, you start to peel all that away and at the end of
the day, we’re all humans. CHRIS ALLERTON