Dumbo Feather – July 2019

Right. The problem’s not simply who dominates, the problem is domination.

We’re not trying to just get rid of that dominator, we’re trying to end

domination. I think there’s also a scepticism and disbelief in love and

compassion. People just think, Okay, that’s great, but this is politics. This is real life. We don’t

believe that people change the world from a really loving place.

So I think that’s a great question. In the 21st

Century there’s two big stories. A story to dread

the other and the story of the good “we.” What’s happening in terms of the right-wing

authoritarian nationalism that’s sweeping the world right now is basically the “wes” are

becoming small and the “others” are becoming large. Think about Rwanda. Same race,

same religion, same language, same family. And still they found reasons to commit

tremendous and horrendous genocide. And now they’re actually trying to come back

together as a people. So that’s the great experiment. Can we actually share the Earth with

the Earth and with each other? And the challenge is that the old way of doing things

no longer works. The world is changing; it’s changing very fast. Something happens in,

you know, Nigeria, and on social media, a billion people watch it, right? So technology

would suggest a breakdown of barriers but also is creating new barriers. And new fears.

The right-wing’s perspective is this retreat to the past. And in the past is this notion that

there is this pure race or pure people or pure religion and everybody else was an infidel or

whatever. Heathen or barbarian. First of all, the past never was really what that lot think

it was. But it’s certainly not the future. I have this image of a butterfly trying to go back

into a cocoon. That’s what much of the world is doing now. It’s like, “Oh! It’s too scary!

I want to go back!” If you squeeze the butterfly into this hole, it dies. Right? And so

In our schools, our institutions? So the right-wing’s response is an inadequate response.

And frankly I would say the typical liberal who thinks, If we just get back to 2010, it’ll be fine.

We’re not going back to 2010, we’re not going back to 1950. We can only go forward. And I

think we can only go forward in a healthy way, in a real way, in a sustained way, through

belonging. If we don’t belong to each other and the Earth, we don’t make it as a species.

Yeah. I think one of the challenges that you touched on is that

okay, here’s this idea. What does it mean if you’re a person

who doesn’t spend time in dusty libraries thinking about these

things? So we have to think of the othering and belonging

that takes place without the words. People don’t necessarily

call what Trump does “othering.” It clearly is. They don’t necessarily call what the Prime

Minister of New Zealand is creating “a premium space of belonging.” She clearly is. So what

we try to do is think about ways that are accessible to people. In terms of practice but also

in terms of being rich in stories. One of the things that has become comfortable to a lot of

people in the United States at least is the concept of equity. As opposed to equality. Equality,

treat everybody the same. It’s like, well actually that doesn’t make any sense. So equity

Right. There’s disempowering

attached to empowering.

What do you think the future of belonging looks like?

Well I’ve been encouraged by the paper
you recently co-authored on targeted
universalism. Can you speak about that in
terms of a tool to get us closer to belonging?

can we learn to live with each other? I mean

we already belong to each other, we’re already

connected to each other. Can we live in a world

where we practice that from our conscience?

107

TEACHER

CONVERSATIONS