Scorsese,wholovedit,andtherewastalkof
himexec-producingit,butthedirectorhadhis
handsfullwithTheIrishman. Koskoff,though,
wasabletotapupmanycrewmemberswho
workwithScorsesetojoinJoker, sothatPhillips
andPhoenix,shesays,could“havethatquiet
spacetoworkandbeshieldedfromthecraziness
ofthefilmmakingday.”
Forthepastdecadeorso,Phoenixhas
workedexclusivelywithdirectorswhoallowhim
toworkinstinctively.“Youdon’thireJoaquin
Phoenixandsay,‘Okay,standonthatlineand
sayit justlikethis,’”saysPhillips.“Youshowhim
theset,thenyoustandinthecornerandsee
wherehegoes.It’sthrilling.”Andafter15-hour
daysonset,theworkcontinued.“Wewent
home,”saysPhoenix,“andwouldtexteachother
forhoursandthenfinallygo,‘Wegottajusttalk,’
andwe’dcalleachotherandtalkfortwohours
abouttheday,andthescenescomingup.Wewere
justimmersedinit.It’sthebestwaytowork.”
Phillipsis justasenthusiastic.“Thiswasan
experienceI’veneverhad.Hequestionsthings,
breaksit apart,weputit backtogether.Andwe
havetogetupinfourhours.”DidPhoenixjust
wanttobeclearaboutwhattheyweredoing?On
thecontrary,saysPhillips.“There’snevergonna
beclaritywithJoaquin.Hedoesn’twantclarity;
hewantsit morejumbledthanit is.”
Afteranhouroftalkingtous,Phoenixtells
Empirethathewantstosayonemorethingabout
acting.Whathe’sreallylookingfor,hesays,is
“humiliation”.That’swhathewantstofeel.
“Thereis a braverythatcomeswithexposing
yourselfinthatway,”saysPhillips,musingon
this.“Ithinkoneofthegreatskillsofbeing
a directoris makinganactorfeelcomfortable
enoughtobevulnerableandfuckup.Braveis a
cliché, and a big term, but Joaquin is the bravest.”
LAYINGOPPOSITE
JOAQUINPhoenixin
a supportingroleis Robert
DeNiro,astalk-showhost
MurrayFranklin.It could
onlyhavebeenDeNiro.
Forone,Phillipsneeded
someoneatleastasgoodtogoupagainst
Phoenix,andthetwoofthembothrevere
DeNiroaboveallothers.Also,though,
TheKingOfComedy’s RupertPupkin
is a spiritualancestortoMurrayFranklin.
“Bobreallylovedthescript,”saysPhillips.
“Imetwithhimandsaid,‘I’dbelyingtoyou
if I saidweweren’tinfluencedbya lotofyour
movies.’I talkedwithhimaboutTaxiDriver,
andaboutTheKingOfComedy, whichis oneof
myfavouritemoviesofalltime.”WhileMurray
Franklinis notRupertPupkin,theinspiration
is there,saysPhillips,whotoldDeNirohe
thoughtit “wouldbereallyfunandfuckedup”
forfansif hewasthetalk-showhost,asJerry
Lewis’characterwasinScorsese’sfilm.
Phoenixlovedworkingwithhim.“It’sthe
details, these little gestures you may not even ❯