80 new york | august 5–18, 2019
all of her experiences of teaching. “It’s fun-
damentally about figuring out where the
student is and how far can I bring them
from where they are.” Her biggest lesson in
this, she said, came not in a law school but
in teaching Sunday school to fifth-graders
in Texas. Asked by her Methodist preacher
to take over a group of unruly kids, she
thought it would be simple: “Y ou teach
them a little lesson, you do a little art proj-
ect, you give them cookies and juice, you
say, ‘Thank you, Lord,’ and then the hour’s
over.” But for weeks, things were bad:
“They cut each other’s hair, they cut each
other’s clothes; the boys climbed out the
window.” So she thought to herself, Okay,
you know how to teach. Teach them like
you teach them in law school. She brought
in a kids’ version of the story of Noah and
told them to read it, because she was going
to ask them some questions.
Her first question was “How do you
think Noah felt when he heard this voice?”
They giggled. “ ‘He thought he was going
crazy. He had a worm in his ear.’ But they
actually got interested in the question:
What would it be like to be somebody who
had a job, who had a family, and hears God
talking to him? Does he know it’ s God?
Would you really sell your stuff? Before
you knew it, it was time for juice and cook-
ies and then everybody went home,” she
said. “I thought, Dang, that worked. I loved
my fifth-graders. They showed me, in all
my cases of teaching, it’s about figuring out
where they are, adding a little to it.”
Ondersma sees Warren’s Socratic ap-
proach at work on the campaign trail:
“There’s a lot of listening happening.
I saw that in classrooms, and it happens
in town halls, too. She’s telling them her
ideas, but I bet she gets ideas from them,
too.” Among other things, Warren has
vowed, if elected president, to appoint a
public-school teacher to be secretary of
Education, an idea she said she first heard
from a voter—a public-school teacher—at
a town hall.
Of course, presidential debates aren’t a
forum that lend themselves to the Socratic
approach—she doesn’t get to tussle at
length with moderators or opponents (let
alone the audience) to really break downideas or build a case. But you can see her
applying it around the edges, and watch
her expertly poke holes in bad arguments.
After the second debate, Warren was
pressed by MSNBC’s Chris Matthews to
say that her health-care plan would raise
taxes. Warren refused again and again to
cede to Matthews’s frame, which takes as
its basis a right-wing obsession with taxes
as the only measure of costs to voters.
Warren has not enjoyed a warm rela-
tionship with the political press. She has
too often been clipped, defensive, uneasy—
the experienced teacher who cannot for
the life of her figure out how to get a room
full of fif th-graders to listen to her. She is
perhaps coming closer to finding her foot-
ing, in part by engaging reporters with
more assuredness, honed via her Socratic
training: Her ability to wrestle through an
argument with Matthews made her seem
authoritative and in control.
Warren agrees that her belief in Socratic
dialogue informs how she instinctively en-
gages with people professionally. In part,
she said, Socratic teaching is about that
back-and-forth, a breaking down of ideas
and examining them from all angles. So
when she and her policy team began dis-
cussing a wealth tax, she said, “I kept tak-
ing the side of the opposition: Wouldn’t
this create a problem? ... We’re pulling it
apart to stress-test it, see if it would work.”
When she was first doing town halls,
after proposing a wealth tax, she said, “I’d
look at the faces and think, I don’t think
everybody is connecting. It’s not quite gell-
ing. So I tried a couple of different ways,
and then it hit me. I’d say, ‘Anybody in here
own a home or grow up where a family
owned a home?’ A lot of hands would go
up. And I’d say, ‘You’ve been paying a
wealth tax forever. It’s just called a prop-
erty tax. So I just want to do a property
tax; only here, instead of just being on
your home, for bazillionaires, I want it to
be on the stock portfolio, the diamonds,
the Rembrandt, and the yachts.’ And ev-
eryone kind of laughs, but they get the
basic principle because they’ve got a place
to build from.”
Warren has also remained a “cold-
caller” in other corners of her professional
life, running offices as she ran a class-
room. Corey Stone, a former assistant
director of the Consumer Financial Pro-
tection Bureau, worked with her for six
months as she built the agency; he re-
called that her former students who
worked at the bureau had warned him
that she was “the queen of the cold call
and had high expectations that people
have their facts in order.” In small meet-
ings, he said, she’d ask direct questions of
the people present, “and if we didn’t havethe answer, it was not necessarily that we
were dumb, just that there weren’t data to
answer those questions. So it made us
make sure that we had the research to an-
swer the questions we couldn’t answer.”
Consider too that, by some measures,
Warren has brought the process of cold-
calling into her fund-raising strategy: Af-
ter vowing not to do closed-door fund-
raisers with big donors, she began
phoning small-dollar donors at random,
mercifully not to ask them about case law.
But it’s the same principle: The people
coming in with structural advantages—
money, confidence, experience navigating
intimidating institutions or plying the
powerful—should not have more access
than those who don’t.
One of Warren’s former students who
declined to be named had a theory about
the seeming paradox of a woman known
as a bold political progressive adhering to
an old-fashioned, rule-bound approach
to teaching. It reminded him, he said, of
Thurgood Marshall, who was known for
being punctilious about civil procedure
even as he broke revolutionary ground on
civil rights. This student talked about
how Marshall understood that rules
could be used to enforce equality, and
that as soon as you introduced flexibility
and discretion, those with more power
would take advantage of the wiggle room.
Regulations, calling every name in a
classroom, could serve as a set of guide
rails, a system it would be harder to take
advantage of. It’s easy to see how War-
ren’s fondness for just this kind of formal
system jibes with her view of regulations
in the financial industry. It is also true
that teachers love rules.
Along with the rules, there were the
dogs. Good Faith (given to her by students
and named after “good-faith purchasers,”
those who didn’t use a contract and who,
she had explained in class, were like golden
retrievers: “empty head, good heart”) used
to sit with Warren during office hours. Af-
ter Faith came Otis. Alison Schary, who
graduated in 2008 and is now an intellec-
tual-property lawyer, recalled that Warren
used to post office hours for Otis. “You
could sign out Otis and take him for a walk
around campus.”
Her current dog, Bailey, has become a
staple on the campaign trail, doing the
work of any good politician’s pet: making
the candidate more accessible to those she
might otherwise intimidate.For years, Warren served on Har-
vard Law School’s admissions
committee. Shugerman briefly
served alongside her and noted
“how focused she was on giving specialElizabeth
WarrenCONTINUED FROM PAGE 37TRANSMITTED
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allofherexperiencesofteaching.“It’sfun-
damentallyaboutfiguringoutwherethe
studentisandhowfarcanI bringthem
fromwheretheyare.” Herbiggestlessonin
this,shesaid,camenotina lawschoolbut
inteachingSundayschooltofifth-graders
inTexas.AskedbyherMethodistpreacher
totakeovera groupofunrulykids,she
thoughtitwouldbesimple:“Y outeach
thema littlelesson,youdoa littleart proj-
ect, yougivethemcookiesandjuice,you
say, ‘Thankyou,Lord,’andthenthehour’s
over.” Butforweeks,thingswerebad:
“Theycuteachother’s hair, they cuteach
other’s clothes;theboysclimbedoutthe
window.” Soshethoughttoherself,Okay,
youknowhowtoteach.Teachthemlike
youteachtheminlawschool.Shebrought
ina kids’versionofthestory ofNoahand
toldthemtoreadit,becauseshewasgoing
toaskthemsomequestions.
Herfirstquestionwas“Howdoyou
thinkNoahfeltwhenheheardthisvoice?”
They giggled.“ ‘Hethoughthewasgoing
crazy. He hada worminhisear.’ Butthey
actuallygotinterestedinthequestion:
Whatwouldit belike tobesomebodywho
hada job,whohada family,andhearsGod
talkingtohim?Doesheknowit’ s God?
Wouldyoureallysellyourstuff ?Before
youknewit,it wastimeforjuiceandcook-
iesandtheneverybodywenthome,” she
said.“I thought,Dang,thatworked.I loved
myfifth-graders.Theyshowedme,inall
mycasesofteaching,it’s aboutfiguringout
wheretheyare,addinga littletoit.”
OndersmaseesWarren’s Socraticap-
proachatworkonthecampaigntrail:
“There’sa lot oflisteninghappening.
I sawthat inclassrooms,andit happens
intownhalls,too.She’s tellingthemher
ideas,butI betshegetsideasfromthem,
too.”Amongotherthings,Warrenhas
vowed,if electedpresident,toappointa
public-schoolteachertobesecretary of
Education,anideashesaidshefirstheard
froma voter—apublic-schoolteacher—at
a townhall.
Ofcourse,presidentialdebates a
forumthatlendthemselvestothe
approach—shedoesn’t gettotussleat
lengthwithmoderatorsoropponents(let
alonetheaudience)toreallybreakdown
ideas or build a case. But you can see her
applying it around the edges, and watch
her expertly poke holes in bad arguments.
After the second debate, Warren was
pressed by MSNBC’s Chris Matthews to
say that her health-care plan would raise
taxes. Warren refused again and again to
cede to Matthews’s frame, which takes as
its basis a right-wing obsession with taxes
astheonlymeasure of costs to voters.
Warrenhas not enjoyed a warm rela-
tionshipwiththe political press. She has
toooftenbeenclipped, defensive, uneasy—
theexperienced teacher who cannot for
thelifeofherfigure out how to get a room
fulloffif th-graders to listen to her. She is
perhapscoming closer to finding her foot-
ing,inpartby engaging reporters with
moreassuredness, honed via her Socratic
training:Herability to wrestle through an
argumentwith Matthews made her seem
authoritativeand in control.
Warrenagrees that her belief in Socratic
dialogueinforms how she instinctively en-
gageswithpeople professionally. In part,
shesaid,Socratic teaching is about that
back-and-forth, a breaking downof ideas
andexamining them from all angles. So
whensheandher policy team began dis-
cussinga wealth tax, she said, “I kept tak-
ingthesideof the opposition: Wouldn’t
thiscreatea problem? ... We’re pulling it
aparttostress-test it, see if it would work.”
Whenshewas first doing town halls,
afterproposing a wealth tax, she said, “I’d
lookatthefaces and think, I don’t think
everybodyis connecting. It’s not quite gell-
ing.SoI tried a couple of different ways,
andthenit hitme. I’d say, ‘Anybody in here
owna homeor grow up where a family
owneda home?’ A lot of hands would go
up.AndI’dsay, ‘You’ve been paying a
wealthtaxforever. It’s just calleda prop-
ertytax.SoI just want to do a property
tax;onlyhere, instead of just being on
yourhome,for bazillionaires, I want it to
beonthestock portfolio, the diamonds,
theRembrandt, and the yachts.’ And ev-
eryonekindof laughs, but they get the
basicprinciple because they’ve got a place
tobuildfrom.”
Warrenhas also remained a “cold-
caller” inother corners of her professional
life,runningoffices as she ran a class-
room.CoreyStone, a former assistant
directorofthe Consumer Financial Pro-
tectionBureau, worked with her for six
monthsasshe built the agency; he re-
called thather former students who
workedat the bureau had warned him
thatshewas“the queen of the cold call
andhadhigh expectations thatpeople
havetheirfacts in order.” In small meet-
ings,hesaid,she’d ask direct questions of
thepeoplepresent, “and if we didn’t havethe answer, it was not necessarily that we
were dumb, just that there weren’t data to
answer those questions. So it made us
make sure that we had the research to an-
swer the questions we couldn’t answer.”
Consider too that, by some measures,
Warren has brought the process of cold-
calling into her fund-raising strategy: Af-
ter vowing not to do closed-door fund-
raisers with big donors, she began
phoning small-dollar donors at random,
mercifully not to ask them about case law.
But it’s the same principle: The people
coming in with structural advantages—
money, confidence, experience navigating
intimidating institutions or plying the
powerful—should not have more access
than those who don’t.
One of Warren’s former students who
declined to be named had a theory about
the seeming paradox of a woman known
as a bold political progressive adhering to
an old-fashioned, rule-bound approach
to teaching. It reminded him, hesaid, of
Thurgood Marshall, who was known for
being punctilious about civil procedure
even as he broke revolutionary ground on
civil rights. This student talked about
how Marshall understood that rules
could be used to enforce equality, and
that as soon as you introduced flexibility
and discretion, those with more power
would take advantage of the wiggle room.
Regulations, calling every name in a
classroom, could serve as a set of guide
rails, a system it would be harder to take
advantage of. It’s easy to see how War-
ren’s fondness for just this kind of formal
system jibes with her view of regulations
in the financial industry. It is also true
that teachers love rules.
Along with the rules, there were the
dogs. Good Faith (given to her by students
and named after “good-faith purchasers,”
those who didn’t use a contract and who,
she had explained in class, were like golden
retrievers: “empty head, good heart”) used
to sit with Warren during office hours. Af-
ter Faith came Otis. Alison Schary, who
graduated in 2008 and is now an intellec-
tual-property lawyer, recalled thatWarren
used to post office hours for Otis. “You
could sign out Otis and take him for a walk
around campus.”
Her current dog, Bailey, has become a
staple on the campaign trail, doing the
work of any good politician’s pet:making
the candidate more accessible to those she
might otherwise intimidate.For years, Warren servedon Har-
vard Law School’s admissions
committee. Shugermanbriefly
served alongside her and noted
“how focused she was on givingspecialElizabeth
WarrenCONTINUED FROM PAGE 37