causetheyarepartlyresponsiblefor
therenotbeingconceptuallyavail-
ableto workingpeopleanyresources
toconstruct upontheirinstinctively
insightfulscepticismaboutglobal-
isationandEurope,analternative
frameworkwithinwhichtheycould
havea different viewof immigration.
It is thisthatliesbehindthepointI
wasmaking earlierthatyoucan’t
blamepeopleforsomethingthatthe
cognitiveresources arenottherefor
theminthepolitical optionsthat
havebeenconceptualised.It is un-
democratic to blame them. We
shouldbeblamingthosewhoarere-
sponsibleforthat cognitivedeficit in
thepoliticalculture.Andthatis what
I holdliberalismresponsibleforand
thatis whyI thinkthattheyare,in
theend,thedeepestenemy.
Allthisis reallyjustbringingout
inmoreconcretetermsbya discus-
sionofBrexitinparticular,whatI
wassayingina muchmorephilo-
sophicalveininanearlierinterview
withyouwhilediscussingMarx’ses-
sayontheJewishquestionand[Ma-
hatma] Gandhi’sHindSwaraj. And
youknow thisis echoedeverywhere
in ourculture,notjustin thepolitical
arenabutin theacademyas well.
Takeeconomicsdepartmentsin
virtually anyuniversityin theUnited
States,which is where I knowuniver-
sitiesbest.Supposebysomemiracle
a radicalsocialisteconomistgotten-
urein aneconomicsdepartmentat a
standarduniversity in America. The
liberalconsensusinthediscipline
wouldcompletelymarginalise her.
It’snotas if theywouldcensorheror
dictateto herwhatshecanor cannot
sayor write(ohno,thatwouldmean
liberalismwould loseitsmoralhigh
ground).No,theywouldjustmake
herirrelevantwithpity:“Poorthing,
sheis 50yearsoutofdate.”Andin
thatethos, mostpeople,outofca-
reeristanxiety,justadjustandshed
theirradicallyalternativeconceptual
frameworksinthediscipline.If this
happenspervasivelyinuniversities
wherecapitalhasmuchlessdirect
influence, you can imagine how
muchmoreit happensin thejournal-
isticarenaand,ofcourse, in the
politicalarena, whichis whatwe
havebeendiscussingin thiselabora-
tionof thecausalconditionsthatgive
riseto contemporarypopulisms.So,whatwouldyousayis the
solution?Yousayit is hardto
envisagetheendof capitalism,and
youhaveshownsympathyforthe
instinctivescepticismabout
globalisationonthepartof
populism,despitepeopledrawing
wronginferencesfromit, sowould
youagreewithSamirAminand
PrabhatPatnaikthatthereshould
bea delinkingof nationsfrom
globalisation,whetherit beBrexit-
likedeparturesfromEuropeor
moregenerallyfromtheglobal
economythatcomprises
contemporaryneoliberal
capitalism?
Thatis a verylargequestion. And
thereshouldbemuchmorediscus-
sionofitthanthere hashitherto
been.It doesseemasif something
likethatis inevitablygoingto bere-
quiredas aninitial stepin theresist-
anceto theill effects of capitalismwe
havebeendiscussing. Butit is inter-
estingthatboththeMarxisttheorists
youmentionwhohaveproposed this
arefromtheSouth. It is justnoton
the horizon of Left thinking in
Europe, at anyrateanythinkingthat
hasanyactualinfluenceinpolitics.
This is evident even in [Yanis]
Varoufakis’ pronouncements and
writings,despite hiswalkingoutof
theGreekleft-winggovernment. He
willsimplynotcountenance fullna-
tionalsovereigntyoverone’sown
economy evenas herailsagainsttheestablishment in Brussels and
Frankfurt.
However,I dothinkit is justpos-
siblethatCorbynis a closetBrexiteer
unabletonamehispositionopenly.
Thesituationis extremelydifficult
forhimforobviousreasons.Thereis
goingtobea lotofhardshipthat
peoplewillinitiallyfacein theshort
runif thereis delinking,whereverit
maybe;anygovernmentwhichleads
sucha movewillhavehugeproblems
tocopewithandwillhavetowork
veryhardat public education of the
country’s populationtopresent a
long-term (and midterm) pro-
grammethatcarriesconviction.
There willbea greattemptation
toresorttothepathofausterity
again,whichmustberesisted. There
willhaveto bea fearlessresolveto tax
wealthandto taxthecorporationsto
generate therevenues needed to
avoidtakingthatpath.Infact,some-
thinglikethiswastheresolve in that
leaked Corbyn Labour manifesto
thatfetchedhimsuchnotoriety. All
themanandtheMomentumgroup
in thepartybehindhimwastryingto
proposeforthepost-Brexitperiod
wastomakeelectoral politics about
somethingotherthanimmigration
andallitgot himwasnotoriety,
spearheadedbythesneeringonce
againbytheliberalpunditsinthe
mainstreampress,thoughit didcon-
solidatehis popularityamonghis
ownbase.Analternativemodelof
growthimplementedthroughtheex-
erciseofnationalsovereigntyover
one’sowneconomywouldhaveto
notonlybedevisedbutmadepartof
theagenda foreducating thena-
tionalpublicto acceptit afteryearsof
havingbeen brainwashedbypropa-
ganda(still zestfullypursuedbya
liberalconsensusbetweentheTories
andBlairiteLabour)abouttheonly
pathtogrowthbeingglobalisation.
Working-class’instinctiveanti-glob-
alisationstancewillnotsuffice. If a
humanepoliticsandpoliticaleco-
nomyis soughtoverthemiddleand
longrun,thatinstinctiveperceptive-
nesswillhavetobegivena frame-
workthatprovidesanalternative
formofthinkingaboutthefunda-
mentalissuesofpoliticaleconomy,
and theconcepts on whichthatYANISVAROUFAKIS.ARISMESSINIS/AFP