AUGUST 3 2019 LISTENER 31
groundbreaking. It was revised in 1996. Is it
due another update?
I think you’d have to write a whole new
book. New Zealand has become a much
more diverse society than it was in the
1980s when I wrote that. We had a much
more homogeneous, Pākehā-dominated
culture and we’ve now got a much
greater range both of ethnicities and
social groupings. We’ve got much greater
extremes of wealth and poverty. We are a
much more complex and culturally rich
society than we were in 1987.In your latest book, Making History, you
express the view that New Zealand historians
should be fluent in te reo. Are you, and what is
the added value?
You can’t understand or read or teach
New Zealand history without confront-
ing the fact that the relationship of Māori
and Pākehā is central to that dynamic
story. And if you are going to tell that
story adequately, you have to be able to
access Māori as well as Pākehā sources.
It’s a great sadness to me that I became
interested in New Zealand history later
than I might. I have tried to learn te reo,
but I am not that good at it. If I had learnt
in my twenties, that would have been
better, and I should have been required to
do so. It still disappoints me how few New
Zealand historians have that facility. But
my granddaughter, aged six, can fluently
count up to 100 in te reo. Māori ritual is
becoming more part of the daily ritual
of school. It’s happening because people
realise, intuitively, that it’s important to
this country.Have your children been influenced in the way
your father influenced you?
Neither has any interest in history – so
much for my influence. My son is an
accountant and my daughter teaches
dance, so, no, not a skerrick of influence.What would you rate as your greatest
professional achievement?
That sort of judgment is for other people
to make, but the thing I most enjoyeddoing was Te Ara [the online encyclopedia
of New Zealand]. We had a wonderful
team. I learnt so much about New Zealand
in all its facets. It was so interesting to be
able to translate knowledge that mainly
came out of books and written material
to an interactive digital form of commu-
nication, with plenty of images and films.
And it’s the easiest thing I’ve ever had to
do, because no one ever said no. From the
start, everyone could see there was value
in what we were doing.Why do you think government ministers,always facing financial constraints, seldom
turned down your funding requests?
New Zealand history is a good-news story
for ministers. We provided them with
opportunities to launch books or websites.
No one was really going to argue that
giving public support to encourage New
Zealanders to understand their history
was a bad thing. Michael Bassett, a former
historian, gave me huge support when I
became chief historian; that was his pas-
sion and so you could understand that.
But then Graeme Lee. Who would have
predicted he had any interest in history?
But he always said yes when we offered
something like a book launch, and he
always spoke enthusiastically. We were
able to rise above partisan politics.What are you working on?
I’ve been commissioned by a publisher to
do a History of New Zealand in 100 Objects.
In the past 10 years, historians around the
world have become increasingly inter-
ested in material objects as a route into the
past. This is a great challenge and I hope
by the time I finish that, we might be able
to put on an exhibition so that people can
see the objects. I am addicted to writing
history and I will
probably keep doing
that until I leave this
mortal coil. There is
so much New Zealand
history to be explored.
Every subject you pick
up, there is always a
new perspective. I love
doing it. l“I have tried to learn te
reo, but I am not thatgood at it. If I had learnt
in my twenties, thatwould have been better,
and it should have been
required. It disappointsme how few New Zealand
historians can.”4 5 6