so much on that, and also as part of that, making stuff,
I think we’re only just now getting to the point where
we’re allowed to say what we like and make what we like
without having to feel that we need to make things that
are to be taken very seriously.
When you’re a woman navigating the entertainment
world in general, that creative space, there’s a lot
of resistance and a sense you have to be po-faced.
But sometimes I just want to watch a really bad
rom-com and genuinely enjoy it. The concept of
’guilty pleasures‘ always annoys me. Fucking guilty
pleasures, I hate it. It’s so passive aggressive. And also
here’s the thing: we’re allowed aliens; we’re allowed
insane, unimaginable galaxies of monsters. But we’re
not allowed to fall in love in a cafe, wearing a lovely dress.
People are like, ‘It’s not realistic’, ‘That’s not how the
world is’. And I’m like, ’Fuck you! Why are other people
allowed their crazy stuff and yet things that are romantic
or beautiful or whatever are not allowed, not cool?”.
Going back to your earlier question about how we got
the film made, the script was very dark. So I provided
a playlist which had Paris Hilton and ’Something
Wonderful’, Britney’s ’Toxic’, ’Boys’ by Charli XCX, and
mood boards which were very almost psychotically
detailed – the manicure was in there, the exact clothes,
exact colour palette. I think that helped. Michael Perry, our
production designer, the first thing he ever did was Sweet
Valley High, and Nancy Steiner the costume designer did
The Virgin Suicides, so I went to these people and told
them I wanted the film to look beguiling. Cassie’s clothes
are very tactile: soft; pink; inviting.
Why do you think we still have so much difficulty
believing women when they come to us and say
they’ve experienced something traumatic? Because
it challenges us. I think a lot of people are worried about
themselves in a general philosophical sense, which means
that, for some reason, our society has made assault and
being accused of assault equivalent, which is fucking
absurd. What I find very interesting about artists is that
actors, singers, directors, writers, whatever it is, who are
accused, nobody ever says, ‘I know this person did this
but I still fucking love their work’. They say, ‘I don’t think
they did this’. I feel like this film is is saying, ‘Look, we’re
all bastards, we’re all complicated, we’re all not good,
don’t fucking say you don’t believe someone because you
like the other person.’ And there will be conversations
about MeToo around this film, but MeToo didn’t invent
this. We’ve all known for centuries, men just didn’t know
we saw them. But also like, they don’t have to be scared
if they admit fault. Imagine living in a world where all
of us felt safe enough to do that when we fucked up,
and when people caused us ill of any kind. I mean that’s
the tension of everything isn’t it? Misunderstanding.
Failure to communicate. Failure to understand. Failure
to empathise. And I’m very aware that like I’m still coming
from a position of enormous privilege. And so I think that
we all just need to acknowledge it, at least first.Half the battle is getting people to acknowledge
these things are happening and do the work to
improve it. You can’t just say it’s someone else’s
problem, I think which is the big kind of stumbling
block. It’s also an industry that’s incredibly difficult to
get into. And so then everyone feels very vulnerable so
everyone protects themselves very tightly. It’s getting
better though, I hope. It feels like it’s getting better.Do you feel like it’s easier now for women on
screen to be complex and make bad decisions?
Yeah, totally. But having said that, there’s still a sense
that if you’re a woman you need to write about women’s
stuff. I was pitching a sci-fi comedy a few years ago, at
a company that makes exclusively sci-fi comedies, and
after my pitch they said, ‘The thing is, we really want
just like a really honest raw story about what it is to
be a woman now’, and I was just like, ’No you fucking
don’t, you just can’t imagine a woman writing anything
else.’ And times that by 10 if you’re a trans actor or a
woman of colour, having to always play a part where
your ‘otherness’ is mentioned, where it’s made to be
the main thing about you. These parts of our identity
aren’t our whole lives. We’re not sitting around saying,
‘So having tits is a nightmare isn’t it?‘ or, ‘Bloody hell,
bras eh? Periods?’ We just kind of get on with our lives.
That’s what needs to change. Just allow us to exist
as humans“OUR SOCIETY HAS MADE
ASSAULT AND BEING
ACCUSED OF ASSAULT
EQUIVALENT, WHICH IS
FUCKING ABSURD.”
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