New_York_Magazine_-_March_16_2020

march 16–29, 2020 | new york 75

LAURIE SIMMONS: So, Jerry

Saltz, what gives you the right to

tell anyone how to be an artist?

JERRY SALTZ: Well, I’m a

failed artist. I started as an

artist, and it’s agonizing to me

that I stopped, but I still feel

it in my body. I’ve had a life

lived in art. I’ve spent my whole

life looking at art, wanting

to be around it—around art

and around artists. Stop.

LS: [Pauses.]

JS: This is the hardest thing

for me to answer. Let me try to

answer a little bit differently.

A lot of people think, How can

a critic write How to Be An

Artist? And I think that you

don’t have to make wine to be

able to write about wine. A

sportswriter doesn’t have to

play football to write about it.

LS: Critics traditionally make

aesthetic judgments based

on an ideological framework,

like Clement Greenberg, or

something less tangible like

taste. Having written this

book, having done the kind

of writing you’re known for,

having the kind of presence

on social media that you do,

where do you see yourself

in relation to those kinds of

writers? What are you?

JS: Well, I think I’m more of

a Sister Wendy–Bob Ross folk

critic. I never went to school;

I have no degrees. I taught

myself to write and didn’t begin

till I was in my 40s. For me,

Clement Greenberg is a big

bully. Telling everybody else

that this was the good art, and

the other art was not good, and

why this was the good art, and

even the good art had to meet

that criteria—I don’t believe

in that. All art is subjective.

No one can prove Vermeer is

better than Norman Rockwell.

We’ve surrounded art with this

magic-potion language that

is written by 55 people for an

audience of about 155. I think

that art is complex, has to do

with history, context, originality,

materiality, and is hard to talk

about. But a lot of that talk I

call bullshit. I want directness,

clarity, and judgment.

LS: Chapter one, page three,

titled “Don’t Be Embarrassed.”

JS: We’re all pretty weird,

pretty wild, and I just want

you to go and do whatever you

need to do. Of course you’re

going to embarrass yourself.

I want you to be radically

vulnerable. We’re all afraid.

That’s the price of admittance

into the House of Creativity.

LS: There is one moment in

the book, in chapter 62, “Be

Delusional,” where you advise

artists to tell themselves, “Yeah,

but I’m a fucking genius.” And

that was the big tip-off to me.

That was proof that you used

to be an artist, or that you are

an artist. Is that where you go

every week when you write?

JS: I’m terrified whenever I

have to write. I sit down, look

at the screen, and think, I hate

this. I have nothing to say. I

mean, how can I have anything

to say at all? Or, I don’t get

it. Or, I’m an impostor. And

when that happens, somehow,

somewhere in you, you still

have to find that place at three

o’ clock in the morning, and

just say, Yeah, but I’m a fucking

genius. And then the spiritual-

suicide meter drops back down,

just enough to get working.

LS: I found myself thinking

about how much advice was

out there for art-worlders, off-

worlders, for anybody who’s

trying to achieve something, or

make something, or do anything

personal in their work lives ...

There’s a point for everyone

where crippling self-doubt

meets unbounded ambition.

JS: Yeah, the raging-bull,

wild animal inside. Feed it!

LS: And I think that

your book really speaks to

a kind of general fear we

all have about putting one

foot in front of the other.

JS: Everybody begins with

or has a certain amount of

doubt, and I think that the

doubt is really useful. I think

the fear is useful. This is the

dark energy that just keeps the

engine churning. I became a

long-distance truck driver for

PHOTOGRAPHS ten years. I self-exiled after

BY:

SYLVAIN

GABOURY/PATRICK

MCMULLAN

AND

JARED

SISKIN/PATRICK

MCMULLAN

Laurie

Simmons

Jerry

Saltz

Can You

Tell

Anyone

How to

Be an

Artist?

Artist Laurie Simmons and our art

critic Jerry Saltz (they’re old friends)

talk about his new book.

LIFE ADVICE jerry saltz and i first met the third week of May 1986.

He came with his new girlfriend—my best friend, Roberta

Smith—to meet our newborn daughter, balancing

a bright-orange vintage Eames rocker on his head. While I was

thrilled to receive our first piece of mid-century furniture, I was

not so thrilled with Roberta’s choice of boyfriend, and I’d let her

know my reservations. She was the newly appointed art critic at

the New York Times. He was a lapsed artist, current long-

distance truck driver, and hadn’t yet written a word about art,

though he seemed obsessed with the subject.

His main talents appeared to be memorizing long passages from

Dante’s Inferno as well as reciting accent-appropriate dialogue from

Apocalypse Now. He was also known for visiting hundreds of artists’

studios while cobbling together part-time jobs to stay alive. He was

just about to publish a compilation of ’80s art, called Beyond Bound-

aries, in which, when it came out, he reproduced one of my husband

Carroll Dunham’s paintings upside down.

Eventually, Jerry and Roberta became the godparents of our two chil-

dren, Lena and Cyrus, and were married in our backyard

in 1992. Obviously, much has happened over the course

of our 34-year friendship. But despite his outsize presence

as a critic and on social media, he remains one of the most

bashful people I’ve ever known. laurie simmons

how to

be an artist

will be

published

March 17.

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march 16–29, 2020 | new york 75

LAURIESIMMONS:So,Jerry

Saltz,whatgivesyoutherightto

tellanyonehowtobeanartist?

JERRYSALTZ:Well,I’ma

failedartist. I startedasan

artist, andit’s agonizingtome

thatI stopped,butI stillfeel

it inmybody. I’vehada life

livedinart.I’vespentmy whole

lifelookingatart, wanting

tobearoundit—aroundart

andaroundartists.Stop.

LS:[Pauses.]

JS:Thisis thehardest thing

formetoanswer.Letmetry to

answera littlebitdifferently.

A lotofpeoplethink,Howcan

a criticwriteHowtoBeAn

Artist?AndI thinkthatyou

don’t havetomake winetobe

abletowriteaboutwine.A

sportswriterdoesn’t haveto

playfootballtowriteaboutit.

LS:Criticstraditionallymake

aestheticjudgmentsbased

onanideologicalframework,

likeClementGreenberg,or

somethinglesstangiblelike

taste.Havingwrittenthis

book,havingdonethekind

ofwritingyou’reknownfor,

havingthekindofpresence

onsocialmediathatyoudo,

wheredoyouseeyourself

inrelationtothosekindsof

writers?Whatareyou?

JS:Well,I thinkI’mmoreof

a SisterWendy–BobRossfolk

critic.I neverwenttoschool;

I havenodegrees.I taught

myselftowriteanddidn’t begin

tillI wasinmy40s.Forme,

ClementGreenbergis a big

bully.Tellingeverybodyelse

thatthiswasthegoodart, and

theotherartwasnotgood,and

whythiswasthegoodart, and

eventhegoodart hadtomeet

thatcriteria—Idon’t believe

inthat.Allart is subjective.

NoonecanproveVermeeris

betterthanNormanRockwell.

We’vesurroundedart withthis

magic-potionlanguagethat

is writtenby 55 peopleforan

audienceofabout155.I think

thatart is complex, hastodo

withhistory, context,originality,

materiality, andis hardtotalk

about.Buta lotofthattalkI

callbullshit.I wantdirectness,

clarity, andjudgment.

LS:Chapterone,page three,

titled“Don’t BeEmbarrassed.”

JS:We’reallprettyweird,

prettywild,andI just want

youtogoanddowhateveryou

needtodo.Ofcourseyou’re

goingtoembarrassyourself.

I wantyoutoberadically

vulnerable.We’reallafraid.

That’sthepriceofadmittance

intotheHouseofCreativity.

LS:Thereis onemomentin

thebook,inchapter62,“Be

Delusional,”whereyouadvise

artiststotellthemselves,“Yeah,

butI’ma fuckinggenius.”And

thatwasthebigtip-off tome.

Thatwasproofthat youused

tobeanartist, orthat youare

anartist. Is that whereyou go

everyweekwhenyouwrite?

JS:I’mterrifiedwhenever I

havetowrite.I sitdown,look

atthescreen,andthink,I hate

this.I havenothingtosay. I

mean,howcanI haveanything

tosayat all?Or,I don’t get
it.Or,I’manimpostor.And
whenthathappens,somehow,
somewhereinyou,youstill
havetofindthat placeat three
o’ clockinthemorning,and
justsay,Yeah,butI’ma fucking
genius.Andthenthespiritual-
suicidemeterdropsbackdown,
justenoughtogetworking.
LS:I foundmyselfthinking
abouthowmuchadvicewas
outthereforart-worlders,off-
worlders, for anybody who’s
trying to achieve something, or
make something, or do anything
personal in their work lives ...
There’s a point for everyone
where crippling self-doubt
meets unbounded ambition.
JS: Yeah, the raging-bull,
wild animal inside. Feed it!
LS: And I think that
your book really speaks to
a kind of general fear we
all have about putting one
foot in front of the other.
JS: Everybody beginswith
or has a certain amountof
doubt, and I think that the
doubt is really useful. I think
the fear is useful. This isthe
dark energy that just keeps the
engine churning. I became a
long-distance truck driver for
PHOTOGRAPHS ten years. I self-exiled after

BY:

SYLVAIN

GABOURY/PATRICK

MCMULLAN

AND

JARED

SISKIN/PATRICK

MCMULLAN

Laurie

Simmons

Jerry

Saltz

Can You

Tell

Anyone

How to

Be an

Artist?

ArtistLaurieSimmonsandourart

criticJerrySaltz(they’reoldfriends)

talkabouthisnewbook.

LIFE ADVICE jerry saltz and i first met the third week of May 1986.

He came with his new girlfriend—my best friend, Roberta

Smith—to meet our newborn daughter, balancing

a bright-orange vintage Eames rocker on his head. While I was

thrilled to receive our first piece of mid-century furniture, I was

not so thrilled with Roberta’s choice of boyfriend, and I’d let her

know my reservations. She was the newly appointed art critic at

the New York Times. He was a lapsed artist, current long-

distance truck driver, and hadn’t yet written a word about art,

though he seemed obsessed with the subject.

His main talents appeared to be memorizing long passages from

Dante’s Inferno as well as reciting accent-appropriate dialogue from

Apocalypse Now. He was also known for visiting hundreds of artists’

studios while cobbling together part-time jobs to stay alive. He was

just about to publish a compilation of ’80s art, called Beyond Bound-

aries, in which, when it came out, he reproduced one of my husband

Carroll Dunham’s paintings upside down.

Eventually,Jerry and Roberta became the godparents of our two chil-

dren, Lena and Cyrus, and were married in our backyard

in 1992. Obviously, much has happened over the course

of our 34-year friendship. But despite his outsize presence

as a critic and on social media, he remains one of the most

bashful people I’ve ever known. laurie simmons

how to

be an artist

will be

published

March 17.