6 AR THE NEW YORK TIMES, SUNDAY, JULY 26, 2020Dance
Jason Rodriguez is worried. Not for himself
— the dancer, actor and choreographer has
been doing well during the pandemic. His
concern is for those in the L.G.B.T.Q.I.A.+
community, specifically Black trans youth.
“They may have found themselves back
home and in a space where they can’t be
themselves, where families limit their iden-
tity,” he said. “I’m concerned about them be-
ing able to be them.”
Having the ability to be yourself is imper-
ative to Mr. Rodriguez, both personally and
in his chosen art form: vogue. For a special
installment of #SpeakingInDance — our
visual exploration of dance on Instagram —
we checked in with Mr. Rodriguez, who has
become a public face of this form, synony-
mous with the Black and Latino ballroom
scene.
Mr. Rodriguez is a subtle scene stealer as
Lamar on the FX show “Pose,” about the
birth of the vogue scene in New York City.
He is also known as Slim Xtravaganza and,
as of last summer, has become a member of
the House of Xtravaganza, which was fea-
tured in the influential 1990 documentary
“Paris Is Burning.”
His decision to join was prompted in part
by his work on “Pose” and one of its main
characters, Blanca, the tough but nurturing
mother of the House of Evangelista.
“Blanca just takes care of everyone,” he
said. “It’s like, ‘Oh my God, Blanca, I want
you to hug me.’ And I do want to be her, too.
Everyone loves Blanca for that. Everyone’s
like, ‘I need a Blanca.’ ”
It led him to form his own chosen family.
Mr. Rodriguez, 30, counts himself as the fa-
ther of a daughter and three sons. Two of his
children, Ashlynn Roché, 20, and José Ro-
dríguez, 21 (no biological relation), joined
him for the #SpeakingInDance video —
shot in the lobby of his apartment building
in Upper Manhattan during a summer
downpour.
Mr. Rodriguez said he regarded the per-
formance as a message of hope to
L.G.B.T.Q.I.A.+ youth. “I just really would
like them take a moment to enjoy vogue, to
enjoy knowing a dance form that comes
from Black and brown trans culture,” he
said. “And to smile and be excited and have
a moment of positivity of hearing someone
say that we see you — we’re here for you.”
Throughout this period of social isolation,
the three performers have remained close,
in a quarantine bubble — dancing together
and talking through the challenges of the
current moment. Ms. Roché and Mr. Ro-
dríguez first met Mr. Rodriguez at his vogue
class at Gibney, a dance school and per-
formance space in Lower Manhattan; he in-
troduced them to the ballroom scene and
has guided them through the early stages of
their careers.
“It’s not that I was ever asked to be his
daughter,” Ms. Roché said. “It kind of just
happened. His apartment became the space
where José and I could hide out and experi-
ence New York and learn what ballroom
was and what family was and become our-
selves and not have to worry about any-
thing.”
Even with much of life on hold — includ-
ing shooting Season 3 of “Pose” — Mr. Rod-
riguez is busy. He is helping to organize the
Million Femme March, a celebration of
Black trans lives, planned for later this sum-
mer. On Wednesday, he will be a judge for
the online Home Improvement Ball,
presented by Van Vogue Jam in partnership
with the Vancouver Pride Society.
He has attended protests with his chil-
dren and finds his role as a mentor hugely
fulfilling. “I listen to everything they say, I
give them advice,” he said. “Maybe it’s the
way they hold themselves or this hunger
that I see in their eyes — because that’s
what I had. When I first found dance, I had
an appetite to discover how to be expres-
sive, how to be creative, how to move. I want
to help them in their journey.”
Mr. Rodriguez specializes in new way
vogue, known for its geometric sharpness,
precision and flexibility. (There is also old
way, which is pose based, and the looser, fre-
er vogue fem.) Recently he spoke about the
importance of vogue, how his experience on
“Pose” has extended into the rest of his life,
and the pleasure of having others to look af-
ter: “I feel like just being a dad — I’m thank-
ful, because it’s not like a hypermasculine
toxic skin. It’s a really cute queer feminine,
a flowy kind of tough skin. Long ponytail.”
What follows are edited excerpts from
several phone conversations.
With this video you want to send a message
of hope. In terms of the poses and feeling,
what were you thinking?
I was telling Ashlynn and José that I really
want people to see that you’re enjoying themovement. Don’t think too much about “Are
we precise? Are we together?” I’d rather
have it be, if you mess up, did you smile
about it? Did you try to acknowledge it? I
wanted them to find a sense of being or-
ganic, because at the end of the day, vogue is
organic.
What about the movement?
It really came from trying to focus on old-
school poses. And I wanted to show a little
bit of stretch to keep it in that new way
vogue format. I wanted to bring together
poses from back in the day, what that looks
like with me doing it with my children. So
passing on this history from when it first
tapped me, and then here I am tapping two
other individuals and keeping that line go-
ing.
How does vogue empower young people?
By helping them express what they can’t
say. It’s a dance form to express your best
self, to use these poses and step into the
room and say, “I am here.” If you’re not ex-
pressing your most confident self, you’re
not voguing. Here is a dance form where it’s
OK to speak; if you’re saying something,
then say something that’s strong and valid.
It’s articulating on all levels: accessing all of
your body.
Do you see connections between vogue and
Black Lives Matter?
Absolutely. I feel voguing and marches re-
mind people that Black trans lives matter,
that Black queer individuals matter, too, es-
pecially in spaces like uptown, where it’s
mostly heteronormative individuals. I went
to this march uptown and it was at the same
time of that really big march that happened
in front of Brooklyn Museum. I really
wanted to be at the uptown one to see if
there was going to be queer representation
— to see if they had an awareness of the
Black trans women that were murdered.
Did they?
I went with my kids and a couple of friends,
and we were the only ones that started
shouting out, “Trans lives matter.” I was
like, “If we were not there, would they have
ever said that?” We were there shouting,
and we were also voguing.
What has attending protests and marches
been like for you as a dancer? How do you
feel when you see so many bodies?It’s incredible. It’s a wave of energy. And it’s
ongoing. They’re all marching for the same
goal. You see a march like this and you’re
like, “Oh, OK, I’m not living in hell.”
I’m part of this groundbreaking TV show.
I’m here spreading a dance form created by
a community, a culture. It’s marching for
justice. I’m not trans, so for me, it’s “How
can I support? What can I do? Who am I
checking in on?” Those are the questions
that circle my head.
How long have you had your kids?
Two, three years. I feel like it’s shaped me to
be my best self. For me, having my children
is to see what they’re going through. I can
relate: like picking and choosing when to be
your authentic self, when to be queer, what
time of the day you can put on heels so your
aunt or your mom might not see it and ques-
tion it. I went through all of that.
You used to be a member of the House of
Ninja. When did you join Xtravaganza?
Last summer. That’s all. Isn’t that crazy? It
was, I think, four years as a Ninja.
Did “Pose” influence that decision?
It did a lot, to be honest. It influenced me
wanting to leave Ninja. It influenced me be-
ing a parent. Because I was like, oh my god,
why don’t I feel the sense of family? Why do
I not have any trans sisters in this house? I
was like, “What the hell is going on?”
Houses were built by trans women. At
Xtravaganza, we have so many trans peo-
ple. I feel they make it feel like a house.
Did you have a connection there?
I thought about it after the passing of Hec-
tor Xtrava. In the last conversation I had
with him, I was like, “I don’t know what to
do with ballroom, I feel so lost.” He was like:
“What other work are you doing? How are
you putting yourself in the forefront now
that you are one of the faces to keep pushing
this culture?” I really wanted to join to con-
tinue his memory.
How do you join a house?
Most of the time it’s if you connect with
someone who’s like, “Oh, come hang out
with us,” and then after a certain amount of
hangouts and connection, you get invited to
join. A lot of people on Instagram are like,
“How do I join this house?” I don’t answer
the question because it’s not a question to be
answered. You have to find it.Vogue Family Values: Trust and Love
Jason Rodriguez, the dancer
and choreographer, strives to
empower a generation.
By GIA KOURLASJason Rodriguez, right,
has been a subtle scene
stealer as Lamar on the
FX show “Pose,” about
the birth of the vogue
scene in New York City.
Below, Mr. Rodriguez,
left, with three of his
children: from left, José
Rodríguez, Ashlynn
Roché and Samer
Ridikkuluz. “If you’re not
expressing your most
confident self, you’re not
voguing,” Mr. Rodriguez,
bottom, says.PHOTOGRAPHS BY MOHAMED SADEK FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES‘I feel voguing and
marches remind people
that Black trans lives
matter.’