104 newyork| october12–25, 2020
would have to be total insanity.
It would mean if they don’t come to an
agreement now—I spoke to Speaker
Pelosi yesterday, Secretary Mnuchin. It
means that deal never comes together.
It means Joe Biden doesn’t win. Because
if Joe Biden wins, he’ll provide aid. It
means the Senate doesn’t go Democratic.
Because if it goes Democratic, Senator
Schumerwill certainly provide the aid.
Theonlyway that happens is all of the
abovewould have to collapse. President
Trumpwins reelection, and the Republi-
canSenate wins reelection. If that hap-
pens,I’msure they would maintain this
positionof“We’re not going to help Demo-
craticstates,” which is all that they’re say-
ing.It ’s just political. But I don’t believe
thatis a realistic probability.
Everyday, I hear New Yorkers talking
aboutthecity going back to the ’70s.
Wheredoyou think we’re heading?
I thinkwe’re going to be better for it.
We’llmourn the loss and grieve those lost,
likewedo9/11. But we’ll be stronger and
betterforit.
I dobelieve this has been the most chal-
lengingtime for government, because gov-
ernmentwas more relevant. The conse-
quenceswere higher, and government had
a greaterresponsibility—not just to com-
municateand connect with people, and not
justtodevelop trust, which was so neces-
sary,butit then had to perform. It had to
dothetests. It had to do the PPE. It had to
findhospital capacity. And it did. In every
projection, including the IHME model,
whichis what the White House used, 110 to
140,000New Yorkers would need hospital
beds.Andwe flattened that curve. That is
inarguable, and that is a remarkable
achievement that saved lives. And I have
beeningovernment for a long time. There’s
veryfew circumstances where government
actionwilleither save lives or cost lives and
theconnection will be demonstrable. That
wasthesituation here. And it still is.
It’salsokind of amazing to think how
sortofpersonal that experience was for
you.I mean, obviously, you have a team;
youhave a huge number of people working
withyou.But to a certain extent, also
becauseofthe conditions of the pandemic,
youwererelatively isolated during thistime. And during that time, you became
one of the most trusted figures in Ameri-
can politics as the whole country faced
down this nightmare, but you were also
dealing with and presiding over this
incredibly grim crisis on the ground. You
had it on all sides.
It was incredible. But I’ll tell you what
was most incredible in retrospect. I don’t
even have the words for it. There weren’t
two sides. It was one side. Every conversa-
tion was the same. People saying there’s no
way government can put the policies in
place enough that we flatten the curve. And
there’s no way that people would follow
them, even if you put them in place. It’s just
too dramatic, especially in New York,
where people are very strong-willed and
we’re very diverse. Plus, nobody trusts gov-
ernment anymore. And I was a popular
governor, but you’re going to a level of con-
nectivity and trust that people just don’t
have with government anymore. I mean,
you have to go back to—when was govern-
ment that intense, World War II?
Well, definitely before Reagan.
To establish the connection that was nec-
essary, I didn’t communicate as an elected
official. I didn’t separate the conversations
I was having with my family and the con-
versations I was having at the briefings.
They were the same conversation. I was
doing the briefings every morning for two
hours. I wasn’t sleeping. There was no offi-
cial hat and unofficial hat. I did not speak as
a politician, as a governor. I didn’t even have
any of those filters. When I didn’t know the
facts, I told you that. When I was worried,
I told you that. When I saw a glimmer of
light, I told you that. When I was sick to my
stomach worried about my brother, I told
you that. When I was frightened for my
mother, I told you that. When I had to quar-
antine my daughter, I told you that.
The boyfriend.^17
Now, in normal politics they would say,
“Oh, you can’t talk. You can’t show fear.
They’ll use that against you. The press will
mock you. You can’t tell those jokes. They’re
not funny. The press will mock you.” But for
me, it was all or nothing anyway. They had
to believe me. They had to trust me. They
had to trust the information, and I had a
very short period of time to do it. The brief-
ings, all I had were the numbers. There
were no remarks prepared. There was no
discussion beforehand. It was all justgenu-
ine daily conversation. And if theywere
going to mock my sense of humorormock
me for being weak because I expressedfear,
so be it. But if I didn’t connect, thenpeople
wouldn’t follow the policies andthenthe
curve wouldn’t be flattened and thenwe’d
have tens of thousands more peopledead.
So that’s what I did. ■havebetterwindowsthat providebetter
energyefficiency,andthehouseis betterfor
it.I believethat’struefortheCity ofNew
York.We havea lotoftheseissuesthat had
tobedealtwithanyway.
Lookat thesubways.IfI saidtoyou,
“We’regoingtodisinfect everysubway car.
Andwe’regoingtogetthehomelessoutof
theentiresystem—everycar, everysta-
tion,”youwouldsay “Impossible.”Bythe
way, I wouldhavesaid“Impossible.”But
wedidthat.
TostayontheMTAfora second,asa
casestudygoingforward,whatdowe
needtodotosolve thatproblemtomake
ita publicservicethatendures,providing
thekindofserviceNewYorkershave
cometoexpect?
Well,they arenowgettingthebest ser-
vicetheyeverhad.Cleanertrains,more
plannedservice,morecapitalrepairs—
But,I mean,theirbudgetisinterrible
shape,right?
Well,that’sjust money. Butallthisis
justmoney. TheMTAneedsmoney;the
stateneedsmoney. There’snothingthat
wedon’t knowhowtodo.It’sa question
offunding.
Doyouworry aboutwhatwillhappenif
thestatedoesn’tgetit?Youmentioneda
fewminutesagothatfearaboutlifeinthe
cityingeneralbeingunsafe. Do youworry
aboutthelong-termholethatpeople
leavingNewYorkcouldmake inoursocial
fabrichere?
Yes.Butonmy list ofworries,I worry
aboutcovid, too.I worry aboutthenext
virus.I worryaboutclimate change. I worry
aboutthenextstormandthenextflood.I
worryaboutsocialunrest. AndthenI worry
thattheremay betotalinsanity inWashing-
tonandwedon’t receivefederal aid.^16 Butit
Andrew
Cuomo- SenateRepublicans’
proposalsfora second
roundofstimulusfunding
havesofarnotincluded
aidtostates.
17. InoneAprilbriefing,
Cuomoriffedonhow
hedealswithhis
daughters’
boyfriends.“ You
alwayssay youlike
theboyfriend.”