the times | Monday November 9 2020 1GT 7
life
impatient and distressed. They may
feel disappointed with their lives or
their children. They may worry more
and become allergic to stress.
“Others become more strident and
bossy. They become more conservative
with a small c. They don’t have any
power any more, their children are
grown up and there is a great sense of
loss. A lot of your friends may be
dying off, but you need to find
younger new people if you can.”
The pandemic, Bakewell thinks,
has forced the younger generation
into a lifestyle that is familiar to the
old. “I feel terrible for the young, all
those university students, when you
think of the times we had. Being a
student was full of such joy; different
groups and clubs and parties. That’s
all gone. I don’t know what they do
about boyfriends and girlfriends;
better not to ask.”
The toll on the mental health of the
young worries her. “They’re clever, but
they’re not necessarily wise. Some of
them will rise to it wonderfully andstart writing great novels and studying
the frontiers of science and
mathematics, but others will just
become reclusive and depressed.”
Having lived through the Second
World War, Bakewell thinks the
country is rediscovering some of the
Blitz spirit. “The great myth is we all
pulled together during the war. There
was a lot of truth in it because
rationing was brought in so everybody
had the same amount of food. You
were told the King and the Queen
also kept the rules.
“Of course, certain London hotels
went on lavishing food on rich clients,
but I remember digging potatoes on
the allotment. There was a sense of
community, which you saw when the
war was over and everybody had street
parties. I think that might also apply
to Covid. People feel [a connection to]
their neighbourhood; they think about
who’s looking after Mrs So-and-So
down the road.”
She’s trying not to think about
Christmas. “People dying of Covidglad I don’t work for the BBC now
makes the tinsel on the Christmas tree
look rather frosty. It doesn’t seem
appropriate to be celebrating. If we
can all bang saucepans for the hospital
we can perhaps all get in the street
and sing carols.”
However, she feels sorry for the
television presenter Victoria
Derbyshire who was forced to
apologise after saying she planned to
break the rules and have Christmas
with seven members of her family.
“I’m a great admirer of hers. I think
she stepped outside the BBC rules, but
people will step outside the rules
because they want to have an opinion
and that’s important.”
Having been a broadcaster for more
than 50 years, Bakewell warns that the
new impartiality guidelines put far too
many constraints on presenters. “I
have to say I’m glad I don’t work for
the BBC any more because they are
enormously strict about what you can
actually say. You’re not allowed on
Twitter to say you think the fall of
Donald Trump will be a triumph for
civilisation. You’re just not allowed to
express political opinions and I’m
slightly wary of that.”
Had the BBC introduced similar
rules when she was working there shecouldn’t have signed up to them. “I
would have left my job. It seems to me
to inhibit your freedom, of course it
does. I’ve never gone along with that
kind of thing at all, so I wouldn’t be
working for them.”
Going back decades, presenters
were asked to sign a document that
included a line about the expression
of opinion. “I remember always
striking out that clause in my contract
and nobody ever noticed,” she says.
“How can you imagine that the
people who present the Toda y
programme and the PM programme
and the World at One who are
enormously well-informed, intelligent
people... don’t have opinions? It’s just
not possible. Of course they have
opinions and they’re required to
suppress their opinions and it sneaks
out in various ways and they come
under a lot of flak.”
Sometimes the most passionate
presenters are the best, she suggests.
“Emily Maitlis is rather conspicuous at
doing that and she’s a powerful
broadcaster. People respect people for
using their own intelligence.
“The same is true of Nick Ferrari,
whose political opinions I don’t
share, but he’s a very good broadcaster.
It’s nothing to do with whether
they’re left or right.” There needs
to be more nuance from the BBC,
she suggests. “If you’re at the heart
of news and current affairs you can’t
be going on hustings at election time,
but if you are running a small-scale
entertainment show it’s fine to do that.
It calls for shrewd judgment and itcertainly doesn’t call for people on
high to issue diktats.”
Some female presenters have also
complained about ageism.“I’m lucky to
still be broadcasting, but I’m a real
leftover,” Bakewell says. She has never
had plastic surgery and wouldn’t
dream of using Botox. “I’m long past
being able to worry about that. It
would be absurd, like trying to dress in
flimsy little tops and silly tops; it’s just
not possible. You’ve got to recognise
that you’re old.”
She does still colour her hair,
though. Can she imagine the news
being read by a woman with grey
hair? “Oh yes. We’ve got Mary Beard
with very luscious grey locks and
proud of them. I think the whole
idea in society now is you look as
you wish to look. There are pop stars
who wear the most outrageous stuff
and set the stage for everyone else.
Obviously, you wouldn’t present the
news in a T-shirt and jeans. It is like
the House of Lords; on the whole the
men are wearing ties still, but... in the
House of Commons some of the MPs
do not. Change comes slowly, but you
can see it arriving.”
As a feminist, Bakewell worries
that some things are going backwards
for women. “There’s been a great
increase in domestic violence during
the lockdown; that really has to
be addressed.”
Does she think Johnny Depp
should be shunned by Hollywood after
a judge ruled that he had beaten up
his ex-wife Amber Heard?
“I can’t see how they can employ
him again easily,” she replies, but that
doesn’t give her any sense of
satisfaction. “I looked at the result and
I thought, ‘If his career is over I am
really sad because I so enjoy him as an
actor.’ I think Edward Scissorhands is
one of the great movies and I think his
role as Jack Sparrow is just sublime,
and I felt what a complete loss that is
through his own recklessness.”
It is wrong in her view for disgraced
celebrities to have their talent trashed.
“I saw Kevin Spacey [who has been
accused of sexual harassment and
assault] do a wonderful Richard III. He
was absolutely brilliant. The fact that
he’s now [accused] of whatever [doesn’t
mean] that I go back and say, ‘No,
really he was a bad actor.’ It’s not
possible. He was brilliant and Johnny
Depp was brilliant at what he did.
Roman Polanski [an alleged child
rapist] is a very fine film director. It
doesn’t distract from people’s qualities,
skills and brilliance at what they do,
the fact that they behave disreputably.”
It worries her that society has
become so judgmental. “I grew up in a
world in which you toed the line, you
believed what people said, you knew
the catechism and the law and you
were fearful of your parents and your
teachers. We grew up and threw all
this off and said we must be able to say
everything and do everything.
“That, I’m happy to say, has grown
and with it the idea that you must
make your own judgments based on
evidence and intelligence. But now it’s
gone so far. Sometimes I say
something and younger people go,
‘Ooh you’re not meant to say that,’
and I think, ‘I’m 80, I’m going to say
what I want.’ ”I got an exercise
bike; I got the
last hairdresser’s
appointment
SOPHIA SPRING FOR THE TIMESJoan Bakewell