26the state to impose their religion, because they want
to retain the right to have their own understanding
of what this religious conservatism means.Harris Very interest ing. So when we talk about a phe-
nomenon like honor killing, we’re not just worried
about Islamists; we’re worried about how the av-
erage conservative Muslim man will treat his wife
or dau gh ter in light of his religious beliefs and cul-
tural values. And yet many of these conservatives
may be opponents of Islamism.
Nawaz Yes. Conservative Muslims can be very useful
as allies against Islamism and jihadism, but they
may oppose you on gender rights and equality and,
in some cases, honor killings. So the subject at
hand will affect whether or not they ally with you.
Conservative Muslims can be very vocal against
al- Qaeda, for instance, because they believe al-
Qaeda is hijacking their religion. The vast majority
of Muslims in, say, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Paki-
stan, and Egypt are conservative. This compli-
cates matters, because we’re currently faced with
two entirely different challenges— facing down
Islamism and jihadism on the one hand, and ad-
vancing human rights and demo cratic culture on
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