38East and that the West would abandon its support
for Arab despots, which would lead to the crum-
bling of despotic regimes. From the ashes of that
would rise an Islamic State. Bin Laden said this
eleven years ago, and it’s uncanny how the Arab up-
risings have turned out.Harris What I’m trying to get at is the religious dis-
tinction I think I detect between the type of Islamist
you were— having been the victim of violent preju-
dice in the UK and becoming po liti cally radical-
ized by Islam— and someone who may or may not
have similar grievances but decides to go fi ght for
a group like the Islamic State because he genuinely
believes that he’s participating in a cosmic war
against evil, and will either spread the one true
faith to the ends of the earth or get himself mar-
tyred in the pro cess. Were you thinking about the
prospects of your own martyrdom? Or was your Is-
lamism more a matter of politics and ordinary
grievances?
Nawaz I suppose I’m trying to say that although
there’s a difference in methodology, all Islamists be-
lieve they’re engaged in a cosmic strug gle; but this
cosmic strug gle isn’t the only reason they’re doing it.
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