Do you think these campaigns are getting to systemic issues?
I think they’re really good campaigns. To ask w hether they’re
getting to systemic issues is, I think, misleading—the kind of
question that undermined a lot of traditional Marxist politics.
Systemic questions grow out of people learning more and more
about how the w orld w orks, step-by-step. If you become aw are that
people in Haiti are being paid a couple of cents an hour to make
money for rich people here, that ultimately—and maybe a lot sooner
than ultimately—leads to questions about the structure of pow er in
general.
T he current economic system appears to be triumphant, but you’ve
said that it’s going to self-destruct—that that’s inherent in its logic.
Do you still feel that w ay?
I actually said something different. T he current system has
elements in it that look like they’re going to self-destruct. But it’s
unclear w hether the w hole w orld is going to turn into something
like a T hird World country w here w ealth is highly concentrated,
resources are used to protect the w ealthy, and the general public
finds itself somew here betw een unpleasantness and actual misery.
I don’t think that kind of w orld can survive very long, but I can’t
prove it. It’s kind of an experiment. Nobody know s the answ er,
because nobody understands these things w ell enough.
Opinion polls show how much people dislike this system. W hen
Business Week surveyed public attitudes tow ards business, they
w ere pretty startled by the results. 95% of the people—that’s a
number you almost never see in a poll—said corporations have a
responsibility to reduce profit for the benefit of their w orkers and
the communities they do business in. 70% thought businesses have
too much pow er, and roughly the same number thought business has
gained more by deregulation and similar measures than the general
population has.
Other studies taken around the same time show that over 80% of
the population think that w orking people don’t have enough say in
w hat goes on, that the economic system is inherently unfair, and
that the government basically isn’t functioning, because it’s w orking
for the rich.