that there are certain subjects that can-
not be broached, and certain people
who cannot raise them. I ask Hytner
what he thought of the Old Vic’s deci-
sion to cancel a production of Into the
Woods, directed by Terry Gilliam,
apparently after he defended the
American comedian Dave Chappelle
against criticism that his comedy was
transphobic. Hytner is wary but direct.
“I have no idea what went on at the Old
Vic and am not prepared to have an
opinion,” he says. “Social media is what
it is. It encourages instant, ill-informed
and absolute responses, and I don’t
want to get involved in that.”
Is there anything he thinks that
could not be staged nowadays? “There
are things that I wouldn’t want to put on
which 20 years ago I might have. There
are things that might have been inter-
esting or funny 20 years ago, which sim-
ply aren’t any more. But I don’t feel
there is anything that is going on at the
moment that would prevent me from
producing what I want to produce.
“The point about the theatre is that it’s
all about contradiction, ambiguity and
nuance. It has, historically, been a stran-
ger to absolutism. You cannot make a
scene, let alone a play, out of one point
of view only. It’s not to say a playwright
shouldn’t have a clear moral or philo-
sophical compass. But drama is the place
where you argue your way, not neces-
sarily towards a position, but towards
some kind of embracing of irreconcil-
able differences. What audiences want
is interesting, provocative, challenging,
involving, entertaining, funny, wrench-
ing evenings in the theatre and all human
life to be represented on the stage.”
Some worry that the commercial
imperatives forced on theatres will
mean that musicals and revivals will
squeeze out new plays. Not Hytner. “I
honestly think that stuff is self-correct-
ing,” he says. “Audiences have a pretty
good nose for what is done in good
faith. If you haul something out just
because you think it will make money,
that’s always a recipe for failure.”
“There’s far more going on now than
there was when I started,” he continues.
“There are many more theatres dedi-
cated to looking for those new voices
and now doubly dedicated to finding
voices that were perhaps underrepre-
sented.” His critics argue that he does
not do enough to promote new voices.
“I think I am quite happy for what
we have done to speak for itself,” he
says, firmly. “I haven’t counted, butIt will be too
depressing to
stick with
what we all
discovered
in lockdown
— Netflix and
Deliveroo
Drama king
Nicholas
Hytner thinks
audiences
will return in
the long runBeauty and
the Beast
A new
version of
an old storyadapted by Ciaran McConville
with music by Eammon
O’Dwyer at the Rose Theatre,
Kingston, from Dec 10
A Child in
the Snow
A ghost
story by
Elizabeth
Gaskell becomes a scary
two-hander starring Debbie
Chazen and Safiyya Ingar at
Wilton’s Music Hall, London E1RICHARD SAKER/THE GUARDIANI suspect that if you did, the result
would not be too shaming to us. We are
not looking for new voices. We would
be doing an unproduced young play-
wright a great disservice by producing
their play in a 900-seat theatre that’s
looking for a longish run.”
The Bridge took a £5 million loan
from the government’s arts rescue
scheme, with a ten-year repayment.
That, like so much else, reflects its posi-
tion as a commercial theatre supported
by investors who expect to get a return,
but who are “emotionally committed to
the idea of the whole thing working”.His plans for another theatre at
King’s Cross have evolved and changed
thanks to the pandemic, but his general
enthusiasm shows no signs of flagging.
“I am by nature an optimist,” he says. “I
come to work and I go into the theatre
to find focus and meaning. Even when
things are going wrong, I always feel
we’ll find a solution. That’s not some-
thing I’ve ever been able to do quite so
easily in real life.” With that, he laughs
— and heads back into rehearsal. cLa Belle Sauvage is at The Bridge,
London SE1, from Tue28 November 2021 11