18 The Times Magazine
book makes you cry. All the Light We Cannot
See: I cried when I read that too. I don’t read
enough well-written fiction because I usually
pick up nonfiction books.” And The Great
Gatsby? “That’s a strange thing of my youth.
I liked all the F Scott Fitzgerald books. He
writes so well about growing up.”
Does he feel that he’s coming to terms with
the divorce slowly? “I don’t know. I think that
simple characterisations aren’t appropriate.
Melinda and I... I feel lucky that I get to work
with her. And we have the annual employee
meeting at the Foundation and the Giving
Pledge and the annual meeting in June that
she and I host together.”
Are they friends? “I would say that.
In an interview she chose not to use that
word, but I’ll use it. We have a, you know,
superimportant, complex, close relationship
where we’ve chosen to work together. And I’m
very happy that we get to work together. You
know, we built the Foundation together.”
They also had nearly three decades
of marriage. “Yeah. And we have three
amazing kids.”
She said she was grieving for the
relationship. Is he? “I’m also grieving the
same way she is. Yes. You know, we grew up
together. When I got married, yeah, Microsoft
was a big deal. But I was a young 38-year-old
and she was a mature 28-year old [when they
married], and over those next few years, in
terms of what we learnt together, what went
well, what didn’t go well... I mean, that’s more
than half my adult life. And so, yes, you’re
very used to going home and saying, ‘Oh,
I did this well,’ or, ‘Oh, I did this poorly,’
or, ‘Oh, I called this person the wrong name.’
We did a lot together.”
Do you miss that? “Yes, sure. I’m lucky that
a part of it continues. Which I think is super.”
Was it always going to be almost impossible
running one of the biggest companies in the
world, then a huge foundation, being globally
fêted and balancing a marriage and family
life? “I wouldn’t choose to use that excuse.
I don’t think that excuse would have helped
me. So no, I was very serious.” But he was
careless, as F Scott Fitzgerald might say. “No.
I think marriages are so complex that to delve
into that isn’t worthwhile.”
His parents, he says, had a long, loving
marriage. Gates comes from a very stable,
happy background unlike many of the highest
achievers. Does he not believe in having
therapy? “I’ve gone to therapists. My parents
sent me to a therapist and it was fairly eye-
opening for me, because he was the one who
said that if I was at war with my parents I was
going to win, and that it was a complete waste
of my time. And I was like, ‘What? I’m gonna
win?’ He’s like, ‘Hey, they’re your friends.
And they’re your allies. And there’s a world
out there. And you are a clever kid and
you should start focusing on that.’ He was
superhelpful. I recommend to people they
should try therapists. You have to be willing to
take a certain risk and invest a certain amount
of time; I don’t think it’s magical.” He has also
distracted himself this year by playing tennis.
“Tennis is pretty good. But I manage to find
time to play tennis and to see a therapist.”
In many ways, 27 years counts as a
successful married life. Does he feel that too?
“Every marriage as the kids leave the house
will go through a transition. Mine sadly went
through this transition called divorce. But
from my point of view it was a great marriage.
I wouldn’t have changed it. You know, I
wouldn’t choose to marry someone else.”
Would you marry again? “Yes. I’m talking
about would I marry Melinda all over again.
In terms of my future, I don’t have any plans,
but I highly recommend marriage.”
When Melinda was interviewed by CBS,
she said journalists should ask her husband
rather than her whether he had cheated. Isthat a question he’s going to answer? “No.” He
has already issued a statement saying it was a
mistake to meet Epstein. “At the time, I didn’t
realise that by having those meetings it would
be seen as giving him credibility. You’re almost
saying, ‘I forgive that type of behaviour,’ or
something. So clearly the way it’s seen, I made
a huge mistake not understanding that.”
He and Melinda never had a prenuptial
agreement and seem to have divided their
wealth amicably, although neither of them
appears to care too much about accumulating
material possessions. They had an astonishing
array of paintings and properties but how
much did they matter to him?
“It’s hard to know if I care or not, because
I’m maxed out.” Was there anything he
insisted on keeping? “I have a supernice
house.” They didn’t argue at all over who
had what? “We spent some time coming up
with a fair settlement that we both signed.
But neither of us was facing any real reduction
in our consumption. It was more about, OK,
I’ll have x billion to give away, you’ll have y
billion to give away. It was about the causes.”
What about the dog? “She got the dog. She
just killed me with that. No, I’m kidding. The
world should know how mistreated I was. No,
I’m kidding. We weren’t mean to each other.”So basically, they both have what they
wanted. “Yes. I mean, we’re very lucky people.
I feel sorry for when people have superlimited
resources under any circumstance. And that’s
not our situation. We can be reasonably
generous to the kids, but the vast majority
of the money will go to philanthropy.”
And when does he think he was happiest?
Is there one moment he can remember? Was
it starting Microsoft? Or when he was with
Melinda and all the kids or travelling the
world setting up the Foundation? “I’ve had
lots of happiness in my life to go with sad
situations, including my mum dying, my dad
dying. I’ve had close friends die. But overall
I still have to say I’ve been extremely happy.”
What does he want as his legacy? “I don’t
mean to be known at all. I hope that I succeed
working with people to eradicate polio, and
that in the next three years that’s possible.
I hope we eradicate malaria. That’s more of
a 20-year goal. I’m very proud of Microsoft.
I spend 10 to 15 per cent of my time advising
product groups, which is superhelpful to
me because I am seeing the latest in AI
and technology. Between 13 and 30 I mostly
thought about software. So, you know, in a
way the thing I’m most adapted to is sitting in
those software design meetings saying, ‘Hey,
that looks brilliant,’ or, ‘That looks not brilliant.’ ”
Does he think he has mellowed since
those early years? “I’m meeting very capable
people, so we can joke around. So yes, I’m way
more mellow than when I thought, ‘Unless we
get this software product right, Microsoft will
fail and my whole life is Microsoft. That’s all
I am. That’s all I do.’ In my twenties all I did
was Microsoft. I didn’t believe in weekends.
I didn’t believe in vacations. So I guess I’m
way less monomaniacal.”
In his twenties, did he ever dream he
would be this successful? “I always thought
I was on the verge of failure. That’s part of
the mentality. So back then I didn’t believe
that anybody should have a plane or be too
extravagant. I worried it could all go wrong.
But I’ve learnt to relax and enjoy myself more,
and that’s thanks somewhat to Melinda.”
At the end of The Great Gatsby, Fitzgerald
writes, “So we beat on, boats against the
current, borne back ceaselessly into the
past.” But Gates doesn’t seem the kind of
man who will spend much time looking
backwards, dwelling on his life. He ends our
interview exactly on time, saying, “I’ve got
to get going now.” nHow to Prevent the Next Pandemic by Bill
Gates is published by Allen Lane on May 3 (£25)HE WON’T SAY HOW
MUCH MONEY HE
MADE DURING THE
PANDEMIC. ‘I’M STILL
VERY WELL OFF’
Read an extract from Bill Gates’s
book at thetimes.co.uk