96 TIME May 23/May 30, 2022
separates us, I started thinking of
Jesus as the other man in my mom’s
life. I started feeling jealous of Jesus,
like, “Wow, she really does love this
guy. It’s beautiful. I could never have
what they have.”You’ve called masculinity a “grand
performance.” How have you been
reckoning with your own per-
formance of masculinity? I told a
friend recently that I take better pic-
tures after coming out because I’m
not scared of looking gay. I think I
move better, move freer. I’m from
the hood, and there’s a lot of perfor-
mance for protection or self-esteem.
I know guys who have guns, but who
do not want to shoot them: the gun is
a performance, with consequences.
Sometimes stand-up can bring that
performance out of me: it’s such a
masculine sport. I did a show last
night, and I’m sulking in my hotel
room because I’m not happy with
the set. I gotta stop doing shows with
other people. It brings out a com-
petitive side, which makes me go
of course.In your directorial film debut On
the Count of Three, you play Val,
who makes a suicide pact with his
best friend. How do you and Val
relate? Existing with a cloud over
our heads. I felt kind of at the end of
my rope when making this i lm. I had
grown tired of performing, and a lot
of that pain motivated the i lm and
my decision to do it.What would you say to people who
are turned off by the concept of a
suicide comedy? I get it. I’ve dei -
nitely written and performed a lot
of subject matter that people say
shouldn’t be done. But I believe the
power of art is to explore interesting
and rich subject matter, like suicide.
It just has to be done with integrity.
—ANDREW R. CHOWYou reveal a lot of uncomfortable
secrets about yourself and your
family in Rothaniel. How are you
feeling? I feel pretty sturdy, and I
feel very adult. In the special, I am
honest about things I thought I’d
never say out loud. I’ve started feel-
ing more responsibility, which is
not a word I would have ever used
to describe any of my work. But I
dei nitely started feeling it after
coming out.
An idea you explore in Rothan-
iel is “things that exist but don’t
exist; things hiding in plain sight.”
Do you think that phenomenon
is unique to America? It happens
a lot. I feel like Rothaniel probably
played well in London because it’s
such a polite society. But here, I
think about homelessness some-
times: how we’re on sidewalks, you
see someone suf ering, sometimes
you feel unsafe. And we may not be
willing to take the steps necessary
to do something meaningful. So you
just ignore and walk by, because it’s
inconvenient. The principle is prob-
ably the same everywhere. Acknowl-
edging the fact I’m gay undoes a lot
of things for my mom.
You’ve said that you and your
mom have a “God-size wall” be-
tween you. Has it come down at
all over the past month? No. Wise
people tell me these things take
time. She’s gotta cross- reference that
against everything she’s ever known
and been taught by her mother. That
ain’t easy. I had to do it for myself,
so I get it. I was listening to gospel
music in the shower a week ago. I
was listening to a woman sing pas-
sionately about Jesus, and it was
so beautiful. But then I start think-
ing about my mom’s relationship
to Jesus, and started imagining the
singer being my mom. And real-
izing that religion is the wall that
What are the
seeds of a really
strong creative
partnership?
Jerrod Carmichael The comedian talks about coming
out in his HBO stand-up special, directing his i rst i lm,
and empathizing with his mother
7 QUESTIONSWILL HEATH—NBCU PHOTO BANK/GETTY IMAGES