172
uation was perfectly described by Václav
Havel in A Letter to Gustav Husák from- He argued there that people can-
not be manipulated for long and even-
tually lies will come to light.
Why was the Charter established only
in 1977?
The upheaval began in 1975 and since
that time the atmosphere of resistance
gained speed. It was triggered by the trial
of a rock band called the Plastic People
of the Universe which took place a year
later and was supported by a large num-
ber of people, including those who were
no great fans of this type of artistic ex-
pression. It was believed the musicians
would go to prison for many years but,
thanks to many dedicated individuals, it
never happened. The trial of the Plastics
was an attack on free culture; that’s why
people supported them. A number of
protest organisers, including Havel, said
this was an impulse that simply had to
be put to use.Why did you get involved in Charter 77?
You were one of its first signatories.
I found myself there thanks to my
friendship with independent Christian
philosophers. I reached out to Profes-
sor Jan Patočki who was one of the first
spokespeople of the Charter. I did not
hesitate at all. I was 27 then and had a
feeling I had nothing to lose. Anyway,
I did not want to suppress myself to
“normalisation”. I was not a member of
any communist youth organisation and
was clear about the possibility of havinga successful career. I simply signed the
Charter and waited to see what would
happen next.Once you signed the declaration of Char-
ter 77 you got involved in the Czech oppo-
sition movement. Is this true?
I would not use this phrasing. I stud-
ied biology, philosophy and then sociol-
ogy. In the 1970s I was close to a circle
of independent Christian philosophers.
My signature under the Charter put me
into conflict with the system. I ended
up in the same place as all of us: some-
times in prison, sometimes unemployed,
sometimes working in a boiler room. We
had no choice but to accept the situa-
tion as it was.How is it possible that the Charter was
signed by so many people from so many
groups? On face value those people and
environments had very little in common.
This experience might be inspiring
today. If people of different views many
years ago had not been talking to each
other, as often happens nowadays, the
Charter would have never come to be.
The most successful collector of signa-
tures was Zdeněk Mlynář, a communist
party activist and later one of the leaders
of the Prague Spring. I believe he might
have collected 110 of 242 signatures. It
does not obviously mean that reformed
communists were behind the Charter. A
group of Christians was strong too, as
Catholics and Protestants had their own
religious reasons to participate. Apart
from that, there were also liberal intellec-Poles and Czechs across generations At peace with ourselves, Interviewer: Łukasz Grzesiczak