173tuals and people of various professions.
For the whole time that the Charter so-
ciety was functioning, diversity was al-
ways kept. Every year new spokesmen
were appointed who, as a rule, present-
ed different views. We can obviously an-
alyse why the document was signed by
this individual or another. Every one of
us had a different story and our own rea-
sons, but we were united by one thing.
Which was?
It was the Socratic belief that one has
to live in harmony with oneself. The be-
lief that one should not care for fame,
power or money, but something else.
Some, including myself, called it a soul;
others described it as honesty, communi-
ty spirit or conscience. Soon there were
obviously questions like: what’s next out
for the Charter? What will it be now? At
that time the notion of “parallel polis”
emerged and it was formulated by Václav
Benda, an important Czech and Cath-
olic intellectual. Parallel polis was sup-
posed to be the social activity parallel to
government activity. The activity of the
Charter was widening. There was sam-
izdat, and information flow was func-
tioning. We sympathised with those in
need of help, especially those who need-
ed legal and financial aid when clash-
ing with the machinery of the totalitar-
ian regime. At that time in Poland, the
Workers’ Defence Committee was al-
ready in place and we looked for inspi-
ration there. I remember that in 1978,
in the Karkonosze Mountains, we met
with our Polish friends.
Who participated in organising this
meeting from Czechoslovakia?
Jaroslav Šabata and Petr Uhl were
among those who were involved in this
meeting. I cannot recall the role of Havel.
Talking to the Poles was very important
for us as we spoke not only about organi-
sational matters but discussed some gen-
eral issues as well. We knew that citizens
across the whole of Central and Eastern
Europe were in the same boat. Obviously,
we were also aware that, a bit like in the
dog joke you said at the beginning of the
interview, the Poles were in a slightly
different situation. In Czechoslovakia
we knew Polish culture and philosophy
but there is nothing more significant
than direct experience, having an actual
meeting. It is hard to say to what degree
the common experiences of Polish and
Czech opposition activists had on dis-
arming the communist system. Yet, for
us it was probably the most significant
friendship.What role did Havel play in the Charter
community?
In 1975 Václav Havel, as the author
of A Letter to Gustáv Husák, was already
an important voice of our community.
Later he became the spokesman of Char-
ter 77. Being a well-known playwright
and having strong writing skills he was
able to explain much better than others
what it was that we wanted and what our
goals were. However, at that moment no-
body could have guessed that he would
be the leader of the Velvet Revolution,
and Havel himself never regarded him-At peace with ourselves, Interviewer: Łukasz Grzesiczak Poles and Czechs across generations