sofa I designed to look like an
elephant was going to look
ridiculous. [laughs] But I pre-
sented it anyway. See, because it
may be ridiculous to me, but it
may not be ridiculous to them.
I realized that you have to have
the courage to look bad. If it
sucks, that’s OK.
And sometimes even
something that sucks might
contain a seed of something
that might be good.
That was my whole thing. The
good thing, too, is that I’m
older. I’ll be 50 next year. I don’t
really give a damn. I’ll be hon-
est with you; I just don’t care. I
realized a long time ago that I’d
rather live with disappointment
than regret.
How’d the line do once you
got it to market?
It’s doing amazing, man. My
sofa got the award for best
sofa at [industry showcase]
NeoCon in Chicago. I’m
actually working on my second
collection right now. And this
is a world I’m never leaving. It’s
so satisfying, because it doesn’t
have anything to do with
Hollywood. It’s mine. It’s like
every piece I make is my own
production. It’s my own movie.
You also run your own firm,
Amen & Amen, which patron-
izes young artists. What have
you learned about managing
creative people?
You have to create the bound-
aries. I tell people all the
time: Life has no limits, but it
should have plenty of bound-
aries. [laughs] With artists,
it’s like trees. You have to let
them grow, and then you have
to prune, and then it becomes
a beautifully shaped tree. But
a lot of times artists just want
to go wild, and all of a sudden
you’re like, “Oh my God, you’re
into the power lines—you’re
damaging things!”
But how do you prune without
seeming adversarial?
The first thing to do is always
talk about what’s right. Always.
Because they’re already
crushed about anything you
don’t like. And I never talk
as if I know what I’m doing,
because we’re all figuring it
out. Where I see creativity
killed, even with a director or
a boss, is when someone acts
as if they know everything.
Then it’s done, man. It’s fried.
That’s how people get burned
out. You’re the boss, and
everybody’s waiting on you to
tell them what to do. You’re
micromanaging yourself right
out of business.
So you’ve got to listen to
everyone.
You got to listen to everyone.
You have to respect every person
that comes into your employ.
I’ve had assistants who didn’t
work out. But when I let them
go, we had a talk. I said, “Look,
you’re not going to work for me
anymore. Please tell me off. If
you ever had a problem with me
about anything, tell me, so I can
learn.” I beg people: “Please be
honest with me.”
That’s amazing. Have
people surprised you with
what they said?
What surprised me was they
were usually telling me it was
another person that got in the
way, and I was like,Whoa:
That’s where my problem was.
There was another person in
the circle who was making this
thing fall apart. And I didn’t
know that. I was just oblivious.
part. Things might fall apart.
I don’t know where I’m going
to be working next year. I don’t
know what the future holds.
But every entrepreneur has
that. You face the fact that
things may not work out. And
you go anyway.
Do you have a strategy for
coping with that uncertainty?
I go back through my life,
and I look at all the times I felt
that way, and I look at how it
turned out. And I go, Wow,
you know what? It didn’t fall
apart. I actually got better,
and I got bigger, and I learned
this and I learned that. And
that’s the deal: When you
take those shots, you take
those chances. And things are
going to work out as long as
you give everything you’ve
got, and you really take action,
and you don’t leave anything
to chance.
I’ve been working job to
job since 1991. I was playing
football. Getting cut, getting
picked up again, getting cut,
getting picked up again. Then
I start a little acting: a job
here, a job there. I’ve never
known what I’m going to be
doing in the next year—since
- But I always trust that if
I just stay liquid and be open,
I’ll be ready to move. A lot
of people have rejected the
future. I’m always like, “Try it.
Do it.” That’s the deal, man.
I like to take those chances. I
love the risk involved, because
that’s where the rewards are.
Nobody’s secure, dude. It’s all
an illusion anyway, right?
How did that change
your approach?
I ask a lot of questions, about
everybody. Because I don’t
want to have this conference
after you’re let go. And it’s
funny, now my team is extra,
extra tight because we continu-
ously have these conversations.
People feel honest and are
close. And I tell everyone: “You
will never, ever get fired for
telling me the truth about me.”
I do not want yes-men.
That’s pretty unusual for
a guy with your day job.
If you ever see me in Holly-
wood doing my thing, I have
no entourage. I’m alone. I go
to the grocery store by myself,
all the time, because you can
start to lose touch, you can
start to feel likeI’m too good for
that.And you’re not hurting
anybody but you.
You stop being human if you
live in that sort of bubble.
You do. And my deal is you
have to remain vulnerable. A
certain measure of vulnerabil-
ity is necessary to be a part of
any company, and especially
to be a boss. Because it’s your
deal, right? Being a boss means
you take the hits. It means you
are responsible.
You’re doing a ton of stuff
right now. What’s the hardest
part of your life?
It’s that I don’t know. You
want to know how everything’s
gonna turn out, and you
want to feel some measure of
security. That’s the toughest
I KNEW SOME OF [MY DESIGNS] WERE GONNA SUCK,
BUT I PRESENTED THEM ANYWAY. I REALIZED THAT
YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO LOOK BAD.
IF IT SUCKS, THAT’S OK. THAT WAS MY WHOLE THING.”
January-February 2018 / TREPRENEUR.COMEN / 19