The Washington Post - USA (2022-05-23)

MONDAY, MAY 23 , 2022. THE WASHINGTON POST EZ RE A

BY JACQUELINE ALEMANY

AND JOSH DAWSEY

When the House select com-
mittee investigating the Capitol
riot of Jan. 6, 2021, g athered for a
private retreat last month at the
Library of Congress, two mem-
bers engaged in a spirited debate
over a question at the heart of the
committee’s work.
One, Democratic Rep. Stepha-
nie Murphy (Fla.), insisted the
committee should focus less on
former president Donald Trump
and do more to examine the secu-
rity and intelligence failures that
led to the breach of the Capitol by
a pro-Trump mob. She also urged
the committee to look harder at
what can be done to prevent
another attack, according to peo-
ple familiar with the matter.
The other member, Republican
Vice Chair Liz Cheney (Wyo.),
argued that the committee
should keep an intense focus on
the former president.
“[Representative] Cheney’s
view is that security at t he Capitol
is a critical part of the investiga-
tion, but the Capitol didn’t attack
itself,” said Jeremy Adler, a
Cheney spokesman.
The tense discussion — which
played out in a conference room
tucked inside the world’s largest
library, where members posed for
pictures with historic texts such
as the Gettysburg Address — re-
flected just one among numerous
weighty questions the committee
must resolve before nationally
televised hearings start next
month.
With only weeks to go, panel
members are grappling with how
to synthesize a complex investiga-
tion into a cohesive narrative —
and how best to tell the story of
what went wrong on Jan. 6 in a
way that captivates and moves a
hyper-polarized American public.
On a committee dominated by
Democrats after Republican
House leadership withdrew its
cooperation, partisan differences
have emerged, though in some-
what unexpected ways.

Cheney, for instance, has

proved more aggressive than

even some committee Democrats

in wanting to go directly after

Trump. She has supported sub-

poenaing members of her own

party a nd aggressively pressuring

former Trump aides to cooperate.

In a n interview with The Wash-

ington Post, Murphy, who arrived

at the retreat late from a congres-

sional delegation visit to Poland,

denied any daylight between her-

self and Cheney.

“We need to look at this issue

from all angles — inclusive of the

role the president played as well

as the security of the Capitol on

that day,” said Murphy, the lone

Democrat on the committee who

is not running for reelection and a

leader of the centrist Blue Dog

Coalition.

But the degree to which the

public hearings will focus on the

legal significance of the commit-

tee’s findings — and the potential

criminality of Trump’s actions —

remains in question, according to

Murphy and others involved with

the investigation.

Lawmakers are undecided on

whether the committee will ulti-

mately make any criminal refer-

rals and are unlikely to make a

decision until after the hearings.

They are still debating whether

they will try to force Trump or

former vice president Mike Pence

to answer questions, with mem-

bers knowing both are unlikely to

appear willingly.

Some Democrats have ex-

pressed concern that if the public

sessions are too prosecutorial

and focused on Trump and his

orbit, parts of the American elec-

torate won’t listen to the broader

story the committee is trying to

tell.

They worry that fights over

Trump will make it harder to pass

legislative changes they want to

the Electoral Count Act, the 1887

law governing the congressional

certification process. Members

regard the changes as needed

protection against any possible

future attempt to undermine

presidential election results.

“The committee members and

staff know the information they

have and the challenge is present-

ing it in the most accessible way,”

said a former congressional in-

vestigator who, like others inter-

viewed for this report, spoke on

the condition of anonymity to be

candid. “I can’t say whether [the

hearings] should be done in pros-

ecutorial style or not but it’s not a

prosecution.”

Cheney’s unsparing and legal-

minded approach toward Trump

and the attack on the Capitol has

distinguished her work on the

panel. Colleagues say the lawyer

by training is the most well-read

and prepared lawmaker on the

panel. Of the nine members, she

has assumed the most aggressive

posture toward the former presi-

dent.

“Cheney has wanted to make

sure we keep the focus on Trump

and the political effort to over-

throw [Joe] Biden’s majority in

the electoral college and to attack

the peaceful transfer of power,” a

committee member said.

The member said Cheney is not

averse to also discussing preven-

tive measures and changes to the

law. But Cheney, who has become

a top target of Trump’s ire and

faces a difficult primary fight

against pro-Trump challengers,

does not want those issues that

have “become a GOP talking

point... to distract from the

responsibility for what Trump

did.”

In an interview with The Post,

Trump said he was being told by

lawmakers and others with

knowledge of the committee that

Cheney was the most aggressive

member of the panel.

“From what people tell me,

from what I hear from other

congressmen, she’s like a crazed

lunatic, she’s worse than anyone

else,” he said. “From what I’ve

heard, she’s worse than any Dem-

ocrat.”

The former president said he

viewed Cheney as a bigger oppo-

nent than even Rep. Adam B.

Schiff (D-Calif.), who served as

the lead House manager in the

first impeachment trial of Trump.

He declined to say whether he

would appear before the commit-

tee or answer any questions, but

repeatedly claimed that he had

asked for the military to be ready

in advance of the Capitol riot.

Other panel members say they

agree with Cheney’s implacable

view of Trump and his role in the

attack. But some have expressed

worries about deepening parti-

san divides during an exercise

that is primarily designed to lay

out the facts about a day that has

become among the American

public yet another subject of in-

tense partisan disagreement.

“The most important objective

is the battle for the narrative over

January 6th and all that came

before it and all that has hap-

pened after it,” a person close to

the committee said.

Investigators are still wrap-

ping up depositions and inter-

views with witnesses, while figur-

ing out how to handle those who

have not complied with the com-

mittee’s requests. Lawmakers

have been told to brace them-

selves for a weeks-long sprint to

prepare and execute eight hear-

ings that will bring together in-

formation gleaned from more

than 1,000 interviews and

125,000 records.

Committee Chairman Bennie

G. Thompson (D-Miss.) and

Cheney will co-lead the full set of

hearings, along with a third law-

maker who will rotate by topic.

Reps. Elaine Luria (D-Va.) and

Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.), both vet-

erans, will potentially co-host a

hearing focused on law enforce-

ment and the military. And Rep.

Jamie B. Raskin (D-Md.), a former

constitutional law professor,

could lead a hearing focused on

domestic extremism.

The hearings will feature a

combination of live witnesses and

video footage. But it is unclear

whether the committee has start-

ed asking individuals to partici-

pate in any of the sessions. Some

possible witnesses whom the

committee might consider in-

clude Marc Short, a top adviser to

Pence; Richard Donoghue, a for-

mer senior official in the Justice

Department; and Jeffrey Rosen,

Trump’s last acting attorney gen-

eral.

A person close to Rosen and

Short say they have not been

asked. Donoghue did not respond

to a request for comment. All

three sat for extensive interviews

with the committee and were

present during pivotal moments

in the lead-up to Jan. 6.

A final hearing is expected to

take place in September to reveal

the committee’s final report,

which will outline a full set of

findings and recommendations

to prevent such an attack from

happening again.

Even as the debate continues

over a possible criminal referral

— which would be a mostly sym-

bolic and political statement car-

rying no legal requirement — the

committee has recently increased

its rhetoric. In public statements,

the committee has started dis-

cussing the Jan. 6 attack as the

result of a “criminal conspiracy,”

indicating a shift in the tone and

substance of the investigation.

After Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s

former personal lawyer, with-

drew from a scheduled commit-

tee interview, the panel called

Giuliani an “important witness to

the conspiracy to overthrow the

government.”

Giuliani’s lawyer did not re-

spond to a request for comment.

The Justice Department,

which is carrying out its own

investigation, has become a

source of frustration for many

committee members. Lawmakers

have vented about an outstand-

ing criminal contempt referral of

former White House chief of staff

Mark Meadows that Attorney

General Merrick Garland has yet

to act on. The Justice Department

has charged nearly 800 people in

connection with the Jan. 6 attack

and recently expanded its crimi-

nal investigation into the deadly

Capitol siege. Garland has repeat-

edly said his department will fol-

low the facts.

In anticipation of the hearings,

the committee is planning to put

together a “boiler room” to stand

up rapid response operations, ac-

cording to two people involved

with the investigation. The com-

munications arm of the commit-

tee has said that it wants to

expand press coverage beyond

cable news and have members

appear on morning talk shows,

local news, Spanish language

television and late-night shows.

In some respects, committee

members will have precedents to

draw on: Trump was impeached

twice, including once for his role

in fomenting the Jan. 6 riot.

These hearings, however, will

be different, with no predeter-

mined objective or culminating

vote in either the House or the

Senate. (Trump twice was acquit-

ted by the Senate.)

The marquee event of hearing

preparations for both Trump im-

peachment trails were mock

hearings in which staffers and

others played key witnesses and

adversaries to simulate the real

hearings, according to those in-

volved with the preparations.

That could happen this time, as

well.

One person involved with the

first impeachment proceeding

against Trump said Democrats

grappled with a similar debate

that the select committee is hav-

ing now about how far to reach on

Trump.

Referring to vulnerable Demo-

crats up for reelection in conser-

vative-leaning districts, the per-

son said that front-line Demo-

crats “don’t want to feel like

they’re being made to constantly

rehash 2016, but rather there’s an

actionable and present-day dan-

ger.”

Inside House panel, key queries remain as hearings loom

JABIN BOTSFORD/THE WASHINGTON POST

Chairman Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.) and Vice Chair Liz

Cheney (R-Wyo.) address House c ommittee matters in March.

Jan. 6 committee weighs

a focus on Trump vs.

Capitol security issues

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