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FEATURE STORY |ƫ333ċ (%06) #ċ*!0ƫđƫ^21S
ifu, how old were
you when you began
studying Wing Chun?
My first contact with
Wing Chun was when I was 11,
but my mother blocked me from
it, so it was all a little bit secret.
My mother just didn’t want me
to do anything else but judo; I
was not allowed to do anything
with punching or kicking. When
I really started officially — when
everyone knew about it — I was
13 years old.
Did the styles you studied
previously — judo, silat and
Wado Kai karate — have any
influence on the way you
approached your Wing Chun,
then or even nowadays?
Of course we now have
groundfighting in our student
programmes, which is not
traditionally Wing Chun, but
it’s pretty well needed for street
defence. So, there judo came in
handy — it comes naturally to
me because I did it as a kid, I
started when I was six... I also
started BJJ in the 1980s, before
anybody was really well into it;
I was already doing it but more
as a hobby.
I quickly got my belts in
BJJ as well, because it came so
naturally to me, and I decided
to put BJJ into my association.
But eventually that broke down,
because the Grandmaster I
was working with at the time,
Flavio Behring, didn’t agree with
my thinking and we clashed.
I did my research — I’m very
traditional in that sense — and I
said to him, “There is no BJJ...”
because Brazilian jiu-jitsu, it
basically comes from a Chinese
style [known as] Fujian Dog
Fighting, then it came to Japan
and became one of the ryu
[jujutsu systems] like Fusen-
ryu, and through Jigoro Kano
that became Kosen judo. Then,
because it satisfied Western
needs and the Olympics, Kano
created Kodokan judo, which
was more stand-up grappling.
So, Grandmaster Behring
said that Brazilians invented
this stuff, but I showed him
video tapes of the late 1800s to
1900s of Japanese guys doing
these techniques... So there
was a clash. I wanted it in my
organisation, but we just called
it jiu-jitsu and on the wall we
put pictures of Jigoro Kano and
Mitsuyo Maeda — the teacher
of the Gracies — and we give
credit to the Japanese. Like I do
with my Wing Chun, we put the
Japanese or Chinese ancestors.
So, [Behring and I argued]
and I stopped BJJ — this was
maybe 10 years ago. BJJ would
have been a big win for him
with my IWK because he would
have won a lot of students, and
in hindsight also a big win for
me, because BJJ is so popular...
IWK would be maybe three
times as big with the BJJ. Maybe
because I was stubborn and
he was stubborn, it didn’t go
through as planned!
You began to see the
differences between Wing
Chun systems and teachers’
styles early on, when you
switched from the school of
Grandmaster Wang Kiu and
Sifu R. Vogel to a Leung Ting
school. You have since studied
and practised numerous Wing
Chun lineages. Are they really
all that different?
I was completely mesmerised
and absorbed by Leung Ting’ssystem until he made me the
proofreader of his book Roots
of Wing Chun, then I started to
read about other lineages. So, I
got interested but I still thought
at that time that everybody else
was doing it wrong, and only he
taught the authentic system. But
that changed a little bit just by
touching hands [doing chi-sau,
or ‘sticking-hands’ drills] with
others, you know?
I was in the Leung Ting
system and even teaching high-
level masters in Europe for
private lessons and that sort
of thing, but then I came into
contact with other lineages and
I touched hands with certain
people that were just better
than me. When all of a sudden
you are shut down and can’t do
much, you have to sit down and
reflect on why it is happening.
A lot of things in the Leung
Ting system are theoretically
very well explained, but in
practicality it works a little bit
differently — but you’re stuck in
such a huge association, stuck in
a box, so you just touch hands
with people in that association.
You’re not being made aware of
what else there is, you know?
So, I say now from the heart
that the Leung Ting system’s
footwork, body mechanics and
stuff is lacking... That’s just my
personal opinion, but it’s based
on my reality. It’s not that I say
‘That system is wrong’ but don’t
have any experience in it — I
mean, I have a lot of experience
in the Leung Ting system!
So it’s based on your
application of the system and
whether that worked for you?
Exactly. Just to give one
example, the locking up of thehips and the hip tension is not
natural. If you dance or if you
see BJJ, or whatever art, the hip
is a very important part of the
human body, and in martial arts
it’s better mobile than locked up.
In judo there is a lot of that
free hip movement in throwing,
for example, so did you initially
find it difficult to adapt to a
more rigid way of doing things
in WingTsun?
Actually, there was always in
the back of my mind a feeling
like there’s something wrong
with the Leung Ting system,
being so rigid, but the teachers
always gave reasons for it. And
because you’re so deeply into it,
you just discard that negative
feeling — ‘the Chinese way is
better’. So it always felt a little bit
awkward but I’m quite natural
with sports and stuff, so, it
was never really hard for me
to adapt.
You have had many
instructors and mentors in
Wing Chun and martial arts
more generally. Which ones
have had the greatest impact
on who you are today as a
teacher and practitioner?
That’s changed a lot over
time. In the late ’90s to the early
2000s, after all these different
WingTsun teachers, I had the
opportunity to take private
lessons with Leung Ting — it
must have been well over 100
private lessons in Hong Kong.
He was my reference point, my
idol and, at that time, the best
I could find. But then when I
ventured into the Tang Yick
and Yuen Kay San lineages, it
became less relevant for me and
I started moving more towards
the Tang Yick style; the last