BBC Focus - 09.2019

FEATURE INTERVIEW

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THIRTEENYEARSAGOYOUPUBLISHED
THEGODDELUSION. WHATWEREYOUHOPING
T OA C H I E V EW I T HY O U R N E W B O O K ,
OUTGROWINGGOD?
I actuallywantedit to bea children’sbook,but
thepublishersweren’tkeensotheypushedupthe
agescaleof it.I thinkof it asa bookforyoung
people,butI wouldhopethatanybodycouldread
it.I’vebeenawarethatsomepeoplehaveaskedfor
aneasierversionofTheGodDelusion. It isn’tthat.
I thinkit’sa biteasier,thelanguageis a biteasier,
butit doesn’treallyoverlapmuch.It’snotThe
GodDelusion-lite– thechaptersareabout
different things. Though I hope it is light.

WHYDOYOUTHINKWE WANT TO BELIEVE
INTHESPIRITUAL?
A lotof it,I think,is peoplejustdon’tknowbetter.
Inmanycases,theysimplydon’tunderstand
evolution.Theythinkit’sthetheoryof chance.If
youthinkit’sa theoryof chance,thenobviouslyit
[evolution]can’twork.Onlya foolwouldthink
youcouldputtogethertheeyebychance.
I supposethere’sa strongallureto religion.
Peoplewantto believe;perhapsthey’refrightened
of dyingorperhapstheywantto beunited
withtheirlovedonesaftertheydieandsoon.
There’sa motivationtowardsreligionfromthat
pointof view,andthereforepeopleareeager,
ina way,to beseducedbythe ‘design by
watchmaker’ argument.

THEWATCHMAKERANALOGYISONEYOU’VE
ARGUEDAGAINST BEFORE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN
ITFORUS?
It originatesfromWilliamPaley[anEnglish
clergymanandphilosopher,bornin1743].
Hesaysthatif youwerewalkingalongandyou
founda stone,thestonedoesn’trequire
explanation– it’smuchlikeanyotherstone.Butif
youfinda watchandyouopenit up,you’llseeall
thecogwheelsandthescrewsandthesprings.
Obviously,someonehadto makeit.It hadto
havea designer,a watchmaker.Paleysaid,
reasonablyenoughforhistime,thatlivingthings
musthavea watchmaker as well. There must be a
divinedesigner.
Thatwasa difficultargumentto refute,and
whenDarwinwasanundergraduate,hefellforit.
Hethoughtit waswonderful.Butof course,we
nowknowthatlateronDarwinprovidedthetotal
refutation of it. I think it always was rather a bad

argument,butnevertheless,inthe18thCentury

nobodythought of an alternative. So they stuck

with it.

HOWDIDDARWINISMREFUTE THE

WATCHMAKERANALOGY?

Well,livingwatches– thingslikeeyesandhearts

andkidneys– areputtogetherbytheslow,gradual,

step-by-stepprocessof naturalselection.It’sa very,

verydifferentprocessfromthewaya watchis made.

A watchis designedona drawingboard,andput

togetherbyanintelligentwatchmaker,allinonego.

Whereaslivingthingsareputtogetherovermillions

of years– orevenbillionsof yearsif youstartfrom

thebeginning– bya processwhichachieves

remarkablywatch-likeresults.Resultsthatlook

exactlyasthoughtheyhavebeendesigned,butnot

quite,becauseinsomerespects,it’sbaddesign.It’s

designthatyouwouldn’tdoif youwerea human

watchmaker.Thingsliketheeye, for example, with

theretinabeingbackwards.

That’swhatyougetwhenyougetdesignby

naturalselection.Yougetbaddesign, because it has

its history written all over it.

WESEEMTOBESEEINGARISEINTHENUMBER

OFPEOPLEWHOARE‘ANTI-EXPERTS’,

REJECTINGTHINGSLIKEVACCINES,THEMOON

LANDINGSANDCLIMATE CHANGE. WHY DO YOU

THINKTHATIS?

It’smysterious,becausetheevidencefortheMoon

landingis utterlyoverwhelming.We’veevengot

flat-Earthersontheriseat themoment.The

evidencefortheEarthbeingroundis soutterly

incontrovertible– you have to wonder, what’s

goingonhere?

I supposeoneexplanationforflat-Earthismis a

kindof fellowship.Peoplewhoperhapshavebeena

bitof a misfitintheirlifefinda groupof peoplewho

arealsomisfits,andtheyliketo clubtogether,and

theinternetprovidestheclubroomwhereyoucan

meet people who have dotty ideas like you. 2

“I suppose one explanation for

flat-Earthism isa kind of

fellowship ... e internet

provides the club room where

you can meet people who have

dotty ideas like you”

RichardDawkins

(@R i ch ard D a w kins)

RichardDawkinsis a

renownedevolutionary

biologistandsciencewriter

whowasborninNairobi,

Kenya,in1941.Hestudied

zoologyattheUniversityof

Oxford,andwentonto

achievemaster’sand

doctoratedegreesinthe

samesubject.Richardrose to

prominenceafterthe

publicationofhisfirstbook,

TheSelfishGene, in1976.

Sincethenhehaswritten

morethana dozenscience

books,ontopofnumerous

articlesandjournalpapers,

andwasCharlesSimonyi

ProfessorofthePublic

UnderstandingofScienceat

OxfordUniversityfrom 1995

to2008.Hefamously

appearedasa devilinan

episodeofThe Simpsons.