The New York Times - USA (2020-08-06)

THE NEW YORK TIMES NATIONALTHURSDAY, AUGUST 6, 2020 Y A

The former deputy attorney

general Sally Q. Yates on Wednes-

day adamantly defended the Jus-

tice Department’s investigation of

Michael T. Flynn, clashing with

Senate Republicans who accused

her of being part of a politically

motivated ploy by the Obama ad-

ministration to frame President

Trump’s former national security

adviser.

In testimony before the Senate

Judiciary Committee, Ms. Yates

described how top White House

officials became deeply alarmed

when they learned in the waning

days of President Barack Obama’s

tenure that the top national secu-

rity adviser to the incoming presi-

dent was conducting secretive

talks with the Russian ambassa-

dor. They worried that Mr. Flynn’s

purpose was to undercut new

American sanctions against Mos-

cow, and that he was apparently

withholding those discussions

from the incoming vice president.

The F.B.I. eventually responded

by dispatching agents to inter-

view Mr. Flynn, who later pleaded

guilty to lying to them about his

conversations with the ambassa-

dor. Though Ms. Yates did not sign

off on the interview and disagreed

with the process, she argued on

Wednesday that it had been justi-

fied as a means to better under-

stand what law enforcement offi-

cials viewed as a possible counter-

intelligence threat, especially in

the context of an open investiga-

tion into possible links between

the Trump campaign and Russia.

“General Flynn had essentially

neutered the U.S. government’s

message of deterrence,” she said.

“Far from rebuking the Russians

for their attack on our country,

General Flynn was conciliatory.”

Her testimony was sharply at

odds with the message of Republi-

can lawmakers who control the

panel and convened the hearing

as part of an inquiry to discredit

the broader Trump-Russia inves-

tigation, which many of them view

as corrupt. Allies of Mr. Trump

hold up the case of Mr. Flynn as

evidence of investigative abuse,

and Attorney General William P.

Barr moved this spring to drop the

prosecution of the case altogether.

Three and a half years after

most of the events in question

took place, the hearing drew out

few, if any, new facts. Rather, it

was another chance for lawmak-

ers in both parties to fight over

what those facts meant.

In the hearing room, Senator

Lindsey Graham, Republican of

South Carolina and the commit-

tee’s chairman, insisted that Mr.

Flynn had “every right” to talk to

the Russian ambassador as he

did, and suggested that the previ-

ous administration was trying to

use an obscure 1799 statute, the

Logan Act, to punish him for a pol-

icy disagreement.

“What we are doing here is

criminalizing policy differences,”

he fumed, specifically calling out

Mr. Obama and Joseph R. Biden

Jr., the former vice president and

presumptive Democratic presi-

dential nominee. “That’s why

Flynn got prosecuted, because

they hated his guts.”

Ms. Yates repeatedly rejected

Republicans’ sinister characteri-

zation of events.

“The whole prism you have

here that this is all about the Lo-

gan Act is just not how we ran

things,” Ms. Yates told Mr. Gra-

ham.

She said that Mr. Obama and

Mr. Biden were purely interested

in ensuring that it was safe to

share sensitive government se-

crets with Mr. Flynn after public

comments about his talks with the

Russian ambassador contra-

dicted intelligence intercepts of

their conversations.

They “did not in any way at-

tempt to direct or influence any

kind of investigation,” she said.

“Something like that would have

set off alarms for me.”

As she has before, Ms. Yates

said that she had been deeply

frustrated with how James B.

Comey, the former F.B.I. director,

handled the investigation into Mr.

Flynn. She agreed with Mr. Gra-

ham’s suggestion that Mr. Comey

went “rogue” in circumventing

her to set up the interview with

Mr. Flynn without telling Trump

administration officials. But she

defended the bureau’s actions.

And she said Mr. Barr’s decision

to drop the case after Mr. Flynn

had admitted guilt was “highly ir-

regular.”

In an extraordinary interven-

tion this spring, Mr. Barr informed

a federal court where Mr. Flynn

had twice pleaded guilty that

prosecutors mishandled the case,

that the F.B.I. should never have

interviewed Mr. Flynn and could

not prove beyond a reasonable

doubt that his false statements

were relevant to the Russia inves-

tigation, as prosecutors had origi-

nally claimed. The department

cited statements by Ms. Yates in

justifying its decision.

On Wednesday though, she

made it clear that she saw the

false statements as extremely rel-

evant and easily proved.

Under questioning by Senator

Patrick J. Leahy, Democrat of Ver-

mont, Ms. Yates also rejected Re-

publican suggestions — based in

part on open-ended notes taken at

the time by a department official

— that the F.B.I. had been trying

to goad Mr. Flynn into lying. She

pointed out that agents had re-

peatedly tried to jog Mr. Flynn’s

memory after he failed to mention

the sanctions discussion.

“If you are trying to set some-

body up to lie — which I don’t re-

ally know how you set somebody

up to lie — you don’t generally

help them out like that,” she said.

A three-judge panel of the Fed-

eral Appeals Court in Washington

had moved to side with the gov-

ernment and Mr. Flynn and dis-

miss the case in June. But after a

vote of its members, the entire

court announced last week that it

would erase that decision and re-

view the case anew.

Ms. Yates also testified that

knowing what she knew now

about errors and omissions in a

secret court application to wiretap

Carter Page, a former Trump cam-

paign adviser, she would not have

signed off on the paperwork.

The department’s inspector

general, Michael E. Horowitz, un-

covered serious errors and omis-

sions in the applications, includ-

ing questioning the use of infor-

mation from a salacious dossier

that was unverified and later

called into question.

“I certainly regret that the De-

partment of Justice submitted

with the F.B.I. FISA applications

that were inaccurate,” Ms. Yates

said under sharp questioning by

Republicans, referring to the For-

eign Intelligence Surveillance

Act. “I think that is antithetical to

our responsibility to the FISA

court. I think it is also inconsistent

with what my experience with the

F.B.I. had been.”

Ms. Yates’s testimony echoed

that of Rod J. Rosenstein, another

former deputy attorney general,

who told the committee that he,

too, would not have signed a sepa-

rate application to renew a court

wiretap order targeting Mr. Page

if he had known that it contained

errors and omissions.

Some Republican senators,

piqued by those responses, lit into

Ms. Yates.

“What responsibility do you

bear for the deliberate and sys-

tematic misleading of a federal

court?” Senator Josh Hawley, Re-

publican of Missouri, asked her.

Senator John Kennedy, Repub-

lican of Louisiana, posited that

she despised Mr. Trump.

“I think you and your col-

leagues have tarnished the repu-

tation of the F.B.I.,” he said.

Mr. Trump slammed Ms. Yates

on Twitter with dubious claims.

He said she had “zero credibility,”

accused her of aiding “the great-

est political crime of the Century”

and insinuated that she might

have leaked details of Mr. Flynn’s

conversations to the news media

at the time — something she has

already denied under oath.

Mr. Graham disagreed during

the hearing with Mr. Trump and

some of his own members, repeat-

edly telling Ms. Yates that he be-

lieved she had acted properly by

seeking to inform the White

House about Mr. Flynn’s apparent

deception.

Grilled by Republicans,

Former Justice Deputy

Defends Flynn Inquiry

Sally Yates, the former deputy attorney general, testified virtually

at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on Wednesday.

ERIN SCHAFF/THE NEW YORK TIMES

Addressing common

ground as well as

strong disagreements.

By NICHOLAS FANDOS

tant moment for the country,”
said Mr. McConnell, who has
been adept at striking other
last-minute, bipartisan tax and
fiscal bargains in dire situations
— but not in circumstances quite
like the present. “It does happen
to be occurring in closer proxim-
ity to the election than those
other big deals.”
It is also a big moment for the
top Senate Republican, who may
end up having to pave the legis-
lative way for a huge federal

spending package that many in
his party detest.
Mr. McConnell has only him-
self to thank for his predicament.
While Speaker Nancy Pelosi
pushed through a sweeping, $
trillion recovery measure in May
and Democrats demanded for
months that Republicans join
them in mapping out a next
phase of federal pandemic relief,
Mr. McConnell instead hit the
pause button, which he and his
fellow Republicans said was
necessary to assess how the
nearly $3 trillion in aid already
approved was working.
Visible in the background was
the hope that the monthslong
shutdown of the economy and
stay-at-home orders would corral
the spread of the coronavirus
and spare Republicans from
having to get behind another
costly round of aid. That did not
happen. Instead, the virus
surged back in many parts of the
country, many school systems
announced they would stick with
distance learning for the fall and
the initial recovery started to
slide.
“It allowed us to learn the
coronavirus didn’t mysteriously
disappear,” he said in an inter-
view on Wednesday. “It is still
here.”
But the delay meant that Re-
publicans did not even present
their aid proposals until days
before expanded unemployment
benefits that were cushioning
millions of Americans from the
worst of the recession were to
expire. They lapsed last week
with no ready replacement, and a
small-business program consid-
ered crucial to preventing a total
economic collapse is set to expire
on Friday, leading Democrats to
accuse Mr. McConnell of acting
irresponsibly.
“He’s not even sitting in the
room,” Senator Chuck Schumer,
Democrat of New York and the
minority leader, said on Tuesday,
suggesting that Mr. McConnell
was unaware of the substance of
the talks.
Ms. Pelosi has taken to refer-
ring to Mr. McConnell as Moscow
Mitch, a name she knows he
doesn’t appreciate, and in an
appearance Wednesday on
MSNBC ridiculed him for failing
to deliver a Republican majority
for his own proposal.
“As you have seen from the
majority leader, Mr. McConnell,
they don’t have the votes,” she
said. “They have votes for practi-
cally nothing. They haven’t
passed anything. They don’t
even have the votes within their

own 51.”

The situation has also left

Senate Republicans up for re-

election — who have already

seen their political chances

dragged down by Mr. Trump’s

poor standing — with the unap-

pealing prospect of facing voters

in less than three months with-

out having acted to address their

most pressing economic and

public health needs. Their de-

mises could cost Republicans

their Senate majority and Mr.

McConnell his position. And

while he is currently not re-

garded as particularly vulnerable

to defeat, the Kentuckian is fac-

ing is own challenge from a

Democrat, Amy McGrath, a

well-financed former Marine

fighter pilot.

Mr. McConnell insisted on

Wednesday that his go-slow

approach had been “the reason-

able thing to do.”

“Pushing the pause button

meant seeing how what we have

already done is working,” said

Mr. McConnell, whose office said

that slightly more than $1 trillion

of the original $2.6 trillion allo-

cated for the pandemic response

remains unspent. “This is not

play money.”

Under the pressure of the

expiring jobless pay and playing

defense in the upcoming election,

Senate Republicans came up

with their own $1 trillion plan

that would slash the jobless

benefits — in an unworkable

way, according to many experts

— and failed to provide any of

the $1 trillion in aid Democrats

have demanded for struggling

state and local governments.

Democrats rejected the pro-

posal out of hand. But more

troubling for Mr. McConnell was

that a significant portion of his

fellow Senate Republicans — he

estimated between 15 and 20 —

made clear they won’t support

any measure, a division that

significantly weakened his hand

in negotiating with Democrats

who already considered them-

selves in a position of strength.

“I do have a divided confer-

ence on whether to go forward,”

said Mr. McConnell. “I personally

think we need to do another bill.”

But, he added, “It is not an

entirely irrational reaction when

some of my members say they

haven’t even spent what we

already allocated.”

With his own members split,

Mr. McConnell threw the talks

over to Treasury Steven

Mnuchin and Mark Meadows,

the White House chief of staff,

drawing biting criticism from

Democrats that the majority

leader had relegated himself to

the sidelines and was out of the

loop.

Mr. McConnell sharply re-

jected that idea, seeming in-

sulted that anyone would seri-

ously believe he was not playing

his usual leadership role. It

would be counterproductive, he

argued, to engage directly in the

talks when the White House

negotiators and the Democrats

would have to reach an agree-

ment that he will then try to sell

to his own membership if he

finds it suitable. He said he is

fully apprised of the substance of

the bargaining.

“Every decision I make about

this sort of thing is entirely calcu-

lated,” Mr. McConnell said. “It

eliminates sitting there and

having to listen to Pelosi and

Schumer’s talking points, which

gets in the way of serious discus-

sion. Meadows and Mnuchin are

not hiding the ball from me and

I’m not hiding the ball from my

colleagues.”

While many Republicans

might find fault with any eventu-

al bill, most of his colleagues

back Mr. McConnell’s approach.

“I think that the leader wants

to be assured that whatever

comes out is something that gets

signed,” Senator John Thune of

South Dakota, the No. 2 Republi-

can in the Senate, told reporters

on Wednesday. “Mnuchin and

Meadows report back. It’s like

he’s in the room, even though

he’s not.”

Mr. McConnell said he talks to

Mr. Trump frequently and that

they consulted by phone on

Wednesday as they also celebrat-

ed a Kansas primary victory that

puts Senate Republicans in bet-

ter position to hold on to a seat

there. He said the president’s

commitment to getting an agree-

ment is illustrated by the fact

that he has dispatched two top

advisers to handle the negotia-

tions.

Still, the president has not

tried to hide his disdain for Mr.

McConnell’s proposal. Mr. Trump

called the plan “semi-irrelevant”

when it was rolled out.

The fight over the package has

spurred some bitter attacks from

both sides, with Mr. McConnell

accusing Mr. Schumer of single-

handedly blocking a temporary

extension of unemployment

benefits and Mr. Schumer regu-

larly castigating Mr. McConnell

for steering clear of the talks.

“It strains reason for Leader

McConnell to criticize those of us

who are actually engaged in

negotiations while he is inten-

tionally staying out of them,” Mr.

Schumer said Wednesday on the

Senate floor, accusing Mr. Mc-

Connell of “Alice in Wonderland

rhetoric.”

Despite the back-and-forth, Mr.

McConnell predicted that an

agreement could still be reached

given the national and political

imperatives at work. Failure

would most likely take a toll on

Republicans whose prospects for

holding the Senate are already in

jeopardy. But if one materializes,

he said, it will not be, as he has

repeatedly said recently, a kum-

baya moment and support will be

fractured.

“If I were betting, I would bet

we do get an outcome,” he said.

“I would still bet we have a good

chance of getting a result.”

For now, however, that agree-

ment remains elusive.

Senator John Cornyn, a top

McConnell ally, noted that Mr.

McConnell had proved himself a

legislative magician in the past,

able to conjure a rabbit from a

hat.

“I keep asking if he feels any

fuzzy ears,” Mr. Cornyn said.

“But he said he can’t feel any

fuzzy ears right now.”

A crucial moment for

the country, and for

control of the Senate.

McConnell Hit Pause. Now, He’s in a Jam.

Senator Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, is trying to cobble together a deal on pandemic aid.

ERIN SCHAFF/THE NEW YORK TIMES

From Page A

CONGRESSIONAL MEMO

Emily Cochrane contributed
reporting.

WASHINGTON — Donald
Trump Jr., President Trump’s eld-
est son, took a break this week
from his relentless Twitter attacks
on Democrats to express his con-
cern toward a different target: his
father’s administration.
The younger Mr. Trump and
Nick Ayers, the former chief of
staff to Vice President Mike
Pence, tweeted on Tuesday their
opposition to final government
approval of the Pebble Mine, a
vast gold and copper mine to be
dug near salmon fisheries not far
from the pristine Bristol Bay in
Alaska.
The two men said they hoped
the president would block devel-
opment of the mine by a Canadian
company in the interest of protect-
ing the area’s sensitive envi-
ronment.
“This should be stopped and I
believe @POTUS will do so!” Mr.
Ayers wrote.
Left unsaid was that the mine’s
opening was set in motion three
years ago by the president’s busi-
ness-friendly administration,
which has pushed the project for-
ward ever since.
“As a sportsman who has spent
plenty of time in the area I agree
100%” with Mr. Ayers, the young-
er Mr. Trump tweeted to his 5.
million followers. “The headwa-
ters of Bristol Bay and the sur-
rounding fishery are too unique
and fragile to take any chances
with. #PebbleMine.”
The stance from the president’s
son and a former top official is a
rare and curious instance of public
disagreement, especially from
Donald Trump Jr., who is the very
definition of a loyal warrior for his
father’s presidency.

Under President Trump, the

Environmental Protection

Agency reversed an Obama-era

decision to block the project, al-

lowing an environmental review

by the United States Army Corps

of Engineers to proceed. The final

version of the review, released last

month, found that the project

would not result in “long-term

changes in the health of the com-

mercial fisheries in Bristol Bay.” A

decision to grant a permit to the

project is expected in about a

month.

The Pebble Mine, about 200

miles from Anchorage, would be

one of the largest open-pit mines

in the world, with copper, gold and

other metals potentially worth

hundreds of billions of dollars. But

it would sit in salmon breeding

grounds that are the basis for a

large sport-fishing industry, as

well as a commercial fishery in

Bristol Bay that employs about

15,000 people.

The younger Mr. Trump is a

well-known hunter and sports-

man, though it is not clear exactly

why he chose to voice his opposi-

tion to this particular project. En-

vironmentalists have criticized

many other decisions by the presi-

dent on which his son has been si-

lent.

A person familiar with the

thinking of the president’s son

said he had spent time in Bristol

Bay and believed that digging the

mine near the sensitive fisheries

could result in serious damage if

there were an accident involving

potentially toxic tailings at the

mine. It was unclear whether he

had mentioned his concerns to the

president recently, but the person

said Donald Trump Jr. had raised

it several times since the 2016

election.

Nanci Morris Lyon, a fishing

guide and the co-owner of Bear

Trail Lodge near Bristol Bay,

hosted Donald Trump Jr., his son

Donald III and his brother Eric

Trump in July 2014 for Eric

Trump’s bachelor party.

Ms. Lyon, who said she had

been an outspoken opponent of

the mine for more than a decade,

spent a lot of time with the Trumps

over 10 days. “I’ll guarantee you

he heard about Pebble Mine,” she

said, referring to Donald Trump

Jr. “Because if you go fishing with

me, you’re going to hear about it.”

Ms. Lyon said that Donald

Trump Jr. and his brother were

“very grateful” to have had the ex-

perience of fishing in such an un-

touched, wild place. “They truly

got it,” she said. “They understood

how ludicrous this expansive

mine was.”

Mr. Ayers did not respond to

questions about why he opposed

the mine. But in his tweet, he

claimed common cause with “mil-

lions of conservationists and

sportsmen” and said that allowing

the Pebble Mine project to go for-

ward would “unnecessarily mine

the USA’s greatest fishery at a se-

vere cost.”

The White House declined to

comment, referring questions to

the Corps of Engineers, which

said in a statement that “it is in-

appropriate for us to comment on

opinions, to speculate on potential

outcomes of our deliberations in

response to media inquiries or to

answer technical questions.”

Mike Heatwole, a spokesman

for the Pebble Partnership, the

company developing the mine,

said the recently completed envi-

ronmental review “shows that

both Donald Trump Jr. and Nick

Ayers are wrong.” The review, he

noted, “concludes that Pebble

Mine will not harm the Bristol Bay

salmon fishery.”

He added, “We do not believe

that the president will interfere

with this statutory process.”

It’s Trump Jr. vs. Trump Sr. Over Alaskan Mineral Mine

By MICHAEL D. SHEAR

and HENRY FOUNTAIN

The site of the proposed Pebble Mine, at the headwaters of Bris-

tol Bay in Alaska, which sportsmen would like to protect.

ALEX MILAN TRACY/SIPA, VIA ASSOCIATED PRESS