THE NEW YORK TIMES NATIONALTUESDAY, DECEMBER 1, 2020 N A21WASHINGTON — A year ago,
Joe Manchin III was ready to quit.
As the most conservative Sen-
ate Democrat, he saw nothing but
dysfunction and inaction when he
looked around on Capitol Hill.
“This place sucks,” he repeatedly
declared. As he often has since ar-
riving in Washington, he openly
mulled leaving to try to reclaim
his old job: governor of West Vir-
ginia.
Instead, he stayed for a second
term. Now, with President-elect
Joseph R. Biden Jr. preparing to
govern from the middle in a Con-
gress whose thin majorities will
force him to compromise on al-
most every priority, Mr. Manchin,
a centrist, suddenly finds himself
at the center of relevance in the
nation’s capital.
In his office on a recent after-
noon, seated not far from a framed
quote from President John F. Ken-
nedy stressing independence
from political party, Mr. Manchin,
73, was feeling energized. He
paged through a proposal he was
developing for a new coronavirus
relief deal and said he was imagin-
ing a more moderate course for
Congress.
“I think we have a golden op-
portunity to bring the country
back together and for us to work
in the middle,” Mr. Manchin said
excitedly. “I’ll tell you the reason
why: The numbers are so close
with what the Democratic House
members lost. For Nancy Pelosi,
she’s going to have to work with
people that have a more moderate
view than some of the people that
pushed her from the left.”
If Democrats are able to win
two runoffs in Georgia in January
and take control of the Senate, any
plans to enact a liberal agenda —
such as increasing the number of
Supreme Court justices — will
have to go through Mr. Manchin.
Likewise, if Republicans win at
least one of the Georgia races, al-
lowing them to maintain Senate
control, they will need centrists in
both parties to help block progres-
sive items or pass compromise
legislation.
That is the situation that Mr.
Manchin said he considered more
likely. He is already preparing for
a power dynamic that he asserted
would give him and three moder-
ate Republicans — Susan Collins
of Maine, Lisa Murkowski of
Alaska and Mitt Romney of Utah
— a big role in determining what
happens at the dawn of Mr. Bi-
den’s presidency.
With Vice President-elect Ka-
mala Harris empowered to break
ties, Mr. Manchin noted that it
would take only two Republican
defections to hand Democrats a
majority on any given measure.
”It behooves everybody to start
working together,” he said. “If
they don’t, it doesn’t take many of
us to say, ‘Guys, we’ve given all of
you a chance. We haven’t done our
job for the last 10 years, and we’re
going to start.’ ”
In recent days, Mr. Manchin has
been working to corral support for
a new coronavirus stimulus pack-
age, racing around the Capitol
asking his colleagues what price
range they are comfortable with
and directing his chief of staff,
Lance West, to draw up proposals.
Mr. Manchin said he thought
about $1.2 trillion might be accept-
able to finally reach a deal —
about half of what his party’s lead-
ers had been pushing for before
the election.
He has been in talks with a bi-
partisan group of senators to try
to forge a deal. They include the
three Republican moderates, as
well as Senator Bill Cassidy of
Louisiana; Senator Angus King,
independent of Maine; and the
Democratic senators Richard J.
Durbin of Illinois, Jeanne Sha-
heen of New Hampshire and Mark
Warner of Virginia.
“Something needs to be done
before Joe Biden becomes presi-
dent,” Mr. Manchin said. “I’ve got
people who aren’t going to make it
to February or March.”
He is also ready to do battle with
the progressive left, whose ire he
drew when, in a recent interview,
he responded to a question about
some liberals’ calls to defund the
police with the phrase “Defund,
my butt.”
In response, Representative Al-
exandria Ocasio-Cortez, the pro-
gressive firebrand from New
York, posted a photo on Twitter of
her glaring at Mr. Manchin as he
applauded President Trump’s sec-
ond State of the Union address.
“I guess she put the dagger
stare on me,” Mr. Manchin said. “I
don’t know the young lady; I re-
ally don’t. I never met her. I’m un-
derstanding she’s not that active
with her bills or in committee.
She’s more active on Twitter than
anything else.”
That amounts to a sharp insult
in a chamber where legislative
prowess is prized. Mr. Manchin
said he would stand firm against
the agenda that the left flank of his
party is pushing.
“We’re not going to defund the
police, we’re not for the new green
deal,” he said. “That’s not going to
happen. We’re not for Medicare
for All — we can’t even pay for
Medicare for some.”Mr. Manchin is also a staunch
foe of another step for which pro-
gressives have advocated, having
loudly spoken out against a move
to change Senate rules so that the
majority could muscle through
legislation with a vote of 51, rather
than requiring that bills meet a 60-
vote threshold to advance. Should
Democrats win control of thechamber, the change would allow
Mr. Biden to circumvent Republi-
can opposition and push through
his policy priorities.
“I can assure you I will not vote
to end the filibuster, because that
would break the Senate,” Mr.
Manchin said. “If you’ve got to
blow up the Senate to do the right
thing, then we’ve got the wrong
people in the Senate.”
Instead, Mr. Manchin said he
and a group of like-minded sena-
tors in both parties — including
many of those with whom he is
discussing a new relief package —
were eyeing a different change to
the rules to empower the rank and
file. Their idea is to allow any bill
approved by a committee with bi-
partisan support to advance to the
floor. That would dilute the unilat-eral power of the majority leader
— currently Senator Mitch Mc-
Connell, Republican of Kentucky
— to control which measures ad-
vance.
“Before we know definitely who
is going to be the majority leader,
we should make the changes of
how the Senate should work,” Mr.
Manchin said of the proposal,
which is exceedingly unlikely to
be successful.
Still, John C. Kilwein, the chair-
man of the political science de-
partment at West Virginia Univer-
sity, said Mr. Manchin would be
“incredibly important” in the
event of a 50-50 Senate. His
stances would also serve as useful
cover for Mr. Biden and Senator
Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New
York and the minority leader, from
criticism they are likely to face for
not fully embracing the progres-
sive agenda.
“He dashed progressives’
hopes already of doing away with
the filibuster and packing the
court,” Mr. Kilwein said.
In some ways, Mr. Manchin is a
throwback to a bygone era. A gun
owner who grew up in the small
town of Farmington, W.Va., and
lives on a houseboat while in
Washington, he keeps photo-
graphs of children killed in the
2012 Sandy Hook Elementary
School shooting on his office wall.
Teaming up with Senator Patrick
J. Toomey, Republican of Pennsyl-
vania, Mr. Manchin tried in 2013 to
craft some modest gun safety
measures to prevent such masskillings from happening again, but
their efforts stalled amid biparti-
san opposition.
He often describes having
learned to govern with “common
sense” from watching small-town
officials navigate problems like
whether to put in or take out a
stoplight.
Charles S. Trump IV, a Republi-
can state senator from West Vir-
ginia who has known Mr. Manchin
for three decades and is not relat-
ed to the president, said the sena-
tor took after his uncle A. James
Manchin, an “icon of West Virgin-
ia politics.” The elder Mr. Manchin
was an entertaining politician
who rid the state’s countryside of
thousands of junked cars and old
tires.
As the state’s working-class ru-
ral white voters — who once voted
for Democrats partly because of
strong ties to labor unions —
shifted to the right, few Demo-
crats could continue to win in
West Virginia. The president won
the state by nearly 40 percentage
points this year. But Mr. Manchin
held on to his seat in 2018, surviv-
ing the steepest re-election chal-
lenge of his career partly on the
strength of the trust he has built
with constituents over decades.
Mr. Trump, the state senator, re-
called how Mr. Manchin as gover-
nor cut short a trip in 2006 to at-
tend the Sugar Bowl in Atlanta,
where he planned to cheer on the
West Virginia University Moun-
taineers, when there was a mine
disaster back home.“He came straight home,” Mr.
Trump said. “He knew it would be
important to the people during a
crisis that he was there.”
This year, Mr. Manchin crossed
party lines when he became the
only Democratic senator to en-
dorse Ms. Collins in her fourth re-
election attempt against a strong
challenger, Sara Gideon, whom
many in Congress expected to
win. When Ms. Collins defied the
polls, Mr. Manchin was one of the
first to call and congratulate her.
“He’s courageous,” Ms. Collins
said. “I admire he does the things
he believes are right, even if he
gets a lot of grief from the Demo-
cratic leader for it.”
Ms. Collins said she looked for-
ward to working with Mr.
Manchin on issues such as reduc-
ing the price of prescription drugs
and a broad infrastructure pack-
age. But the obstacles are steep,
with powerful groups on both
sides of the political spectrum “de-
manding 100 percent compliance”
with their views, she said.
Ms. Murkowski said she hoped
a functioning Senate was not “a
pipe dream from a bygone era.”
“For those of us more in the
moderate camp, it’s a very impor-
tant role that needs to be played,
and I’m looking forward to play-
ing a part in that,” she said. “I’m
tired of the bitter partisan divide
we’ve seen. I want to try to figure
out how we are governing again
for all the country, not just for the
Republicans.”A Divided Senate Is
A ‘Golden Opportunity’
For an Upbeat Manchin
By LUKE BROADWATERA centrist Democrat is
eager to help carve a
moderate course.
Senator Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia, suddenly finds himself at the center of relevance in the nation’s capital.ANNA MONEYMAKER FOR THE NEW YORK TIMESWASHINGTON — Senator Joe
Manchin III of West Virginia, the
most conservative member of his
party in the Senate, has a mes-
sage for fellow Democrats hop-
ing to capture the majority and
quickly begin muscling through
legislation to bring about sweep-
ing, liberal change: not on his
watch.
With Democrats mounting an
intense, long-shot campaign to
win two Georgia Senate seats
whose fates will be decided in
runoffs in January — a feat that
would give them control of both
chambers of Congress along with
the presidency — Mr. Manchin’s
unequivocal stance against end-
ing the filibuster means that
President-elect Joseph R. Biden
Jr. would still need substantial
Republican support, and proba-
bly Mr. Manchin’s seal of approv-
al, for any major move.
In a wide-ranging interview in
his office, Mr. Manchin, 73, a
former governor, argued that
moderates in both parties
needed to assert themselves in a
new Senate, no matter which
party is in charge.
He said that his party had lost
rural voters because of an ultra-
progressive message that scared
them, and he criticized Republi-
cans as having sold their “souls”
in subservience to President
Trump.
This interview has been edited
for length and clarity.
It strikes me that you’re going to
be playing potentially an
extremely important role if we end
up with a 50-50 Senate. Would
you agree with that?
I would think the only reason
that people are assuming that —
you can tell me if it’s true or not
— is because of my independent
voting. I’m pretty independent. If
it makes sense, I go home and
explain it. If it doesn’t make
sense, I don’t. Sometimes that’s a
real strong Democratic issue
they’re really happy with, and
sometimes it’s a Republican
issue they’re happy with. I think
I’m the most moderate or cen-
trist — as far as centrist voting
— than anybody else in Con-
gress, 535 people.
What do you make of the election
results over all?
I just can’t believe that 72 million
people were either that mad or
that scared of the Democrat
Party to vote for what I consider
a very flawed individual. Here’s
a person who lost 230,000 lives
under his watch, basically de-
nounced the science completely
because it might hurt him politi-
cally, has a lack of compassion or
empathy for humans and deni-
grates anybody and everybody
that does not agree with him.
How 72 million people could still
walk in and say, ‘Yeah, it’s better
than that,’ I just can’t figure it
out.
That was a sobering thing for
me. My state got wiped out this
election. So I would say, I’m just
looking at myself, I have not
been good at my message. I
know why I’m a Democrat. And I
know that I’ve never seen the
Democrat Party forsake any-
body.Why do you think West Virginia
and the rural areas have gone so
red?
I can tell you what they said:
‘Listen, I just couldn’t bring
myself to vote for another Demo-
crat that might give support to
the very liberal wing in Washing-
ton that I don’t agree with and
have nothing in common with. I
don’t have anything in common
with people who talk about de-
funding the police. It looks like
they’re condoning riots.’ There’s
not a member in the Democratic
caucus that condones any of this
violence or riots or looting.
None.
I just would hope that people
would start looking at the person
that they’re voting for and not
the party they belong to. A Dem-
ocrat who’s a moderate-conser-
vative like myself is much
needed to bring other people to
that moderate position.The Democratic Party thought it
could take back the Senate this
year, and there’s still a chance that
maybe that can happen if you get
both of the seats in Georgia. But
in order to pass major legislation,
you would have to either get some
Republican support or kill thefilibuster. You’ve long opposed
killing the filibuster. Why is that?
I can assure you I will not vote to
end the filibuster, because that
would break the Senate. We’ve
harmed the Senate enough with
the nuclear option on the judges.
We’re making lifetime appoint-
ments based on a simple major-
ity. The minority should have
input — that’s the whole purpose
for the Senate. If you basically do
away with the filibuster altogeth-
er for legislation, you won’t have
the Senate. You’re a glorified
House. And I will not do that.So there’s no issue where you
would agree to end the filibuster?
Let’s say there’s a badly needed
new coronavirus stimulus
package, and the Republicans
won’t make a deal.
No. If we can’t come together to
help America, God help us. If
you’ve got to blow up the Senate
to do the right thing, then we’ve
got the wrong people in the Sen-
ate, or we have people that won’t
talk to each other. You know, I’ve
always said this: Chuck Schu-
mer, with his personality, he’lltalk to anybody and everybody.
You can work with Chuck. Chuck
is going to try everything he can
do to try to engage with Mitch
again.Are there any other issues where
you would draw a line in the sand
and stand up to other members of
your party?
I’ve done that. I was that one
vote for Brett Kavanaugh. I
thought there had to be evidence,
and I never saw evidence. The
country was in a feeding frenzy.
And there was no Democrat that
was going to buck that. I said,
‘I’m not going to ruin a person’s
life because there’s no evidence.’
And wouldn’t it be so befitting
if he votes to uphold the Afford-
able Care Act? God, oh my. Re-
demption! Is there redemption
here? He and I had a long con-
versation, and I basically said,
‘I’m pleading with you and your
inner conscience, whenever this
comes before you, I want you to
think about 800,000 West Virgin-
ians who couldn’t get insurance
before because of a pre-existing
condition. I want you to think
about 160,000 West Virginiansthat were so poor, they had noth-
ing.’It does seem like Democrats have
won the argument on the
Affordable Care Act. Six years ago,
Republicans were campaigning on
blowing up Obamacare; now
they’re running ads saying they’re
protecting pre-existing conditions.
Here’s the thing. It’s 16,000 jobs
in West Virginia. Three million
jobs in America. You want to be a
vote that basically eliminates
three million jobs? You want to
be a vote that wipes out your
state? It’s crazy.Is there any chance of a bipartisan
group of moderates — you,
Senator Susan Collins, Republican
of Maine, and some others —
emerging that can advance
compromise policy in a new
Senate?We used to have meetings all the
time, either in here or her office.
We had 10 or 12 or 13, sometimes
as many as 20, working through
the fiscal crisis or different
things, trying to find a pathway
forward. We need to be more
vocal with our leadership.What does it mean to be a
Democrat in 2020?
To me, it still means the compas-
sion that we have for people, but
also the dignity of work. That has
to be our driver. It’s the economy,
it’s all about the economy. You
can’t help anybody if you have no
economy and no resources to
help them.
When it comes to workplace
safety, it’s the Democrats every-
one turns to because they know
they’ll do something. When it
comes time to protect people’s
jobs and opportunities, it’s the
Democrats who will fight to
protect that. We’re trying to give
quality health care, so people can
basically contribute to society.
With that, look at the economy
that we created: a billion dollars
coming in our state. We don’t say
that, and we don’t seem to get
credit for that.
So I’m back on track. I know
why I’m here, and I know why
I’m a Democrat, and I’m going to
fight like the dickens.You did a video with a mix of
Democrats and Republicans
asking people to respect the
results of the election. Why do you
think that so many Republicans
are unwilling to acknowledge
reality and stand up and say, ‘You
lost, Mr. President’?
I don’t know. I don’t know the
value of being a U.S. senator, or a
governor, or a congressman or
anything that’s worth selling
your soul or your convictions.
These are all good people who
for some reason aren’t speaking
up. They’re hoping it just kind of
goes away.
Why rouse up 70 million peo-
ple that were willing to vote for
all his flaws, knowing he’s a very
flawed human being? He in-
stilled something, the anger in
people, feeling like, ‘Hey, I’m
getting the shaft here, I’m get-
ting shorted.’ So, they just want
that to kind of go away and see if
it calms down rather than
putting themselves in the iron.
And I understand that. But it
would be so refreshing to have a
majority of all of my colleagues
and my friends on the Republi-
can side say, ‘Listen. It’s time
now to move on.’‘I’m Going to Fight Like the Dickens’ on the Filibuster, A.C.A. and Jobs
“If we can’t come together to help America, God help us,” Senator Joe Manchin III said.ANNA MONEYMAKER FOR THE NEW YORK TIMESBy LUKE BROADWATER