THE NEW YORK TIMES NATIONALWEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2020 0 N ATransition in WashingtonThe Administration
do not provide protection against
state or local crimes.
Mr. Giuliani’s potential criminal
exposure is also unclear, although
he was under investigation as re-
cently as this summer by federal
prosecutors in Manhattan for his
business dealings in Ukraine and
his role in ousting the American
ambassador there. The plot was at
the heart of the impeachment of
Mr. Trump.
The speculation about pardon
activity at the White House is
churning furiously, underscoring
how much the Trump administra-
tion has been dominated by inves-
tigations and criminal prosecu-
tions of people in the president’s
orbit. Mr. Trump himself was sin-
gled out by federal prosecutors as
“Individual 1” in a court filing in
the case that sent Michael D. Co-
hen, his former lawyer, to prison.
The discussions between Mr.
Trump and Mr. Giuliani occurred
as the former New York mayor
has become one of the loudest
voices pushing baseless claims of
widespread fraud in the 2020 elec-
tion, which Mr. Trump still pro-
claims that he won. Many of Mr.
Trump’s longtime aides have re-
fused to do his bidding to try to
overturn an election that Presi-
dent-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. won
by nearly seven million votes. But
Mr. Giuliani has repeatedly thrust
himself into the spotlight to cast
doubt on the results, which has in-
gratiated him with the president.
ABC News reported Tuesday
that Mr. Trump was considering
pardoning family members.
A spokeswoman for Mr. Trump
did not respond to an email seek-
ing comment.
Mr. Giuliani did not respond to a
message seeking comment, but
after a version of this article was
published online, he attacked it on
Twitter and said it was false.
Christianné L. Allen, Mr. Giuli-
ani’s spokeswoman, said Mr. Giu-
liani “cannot comment on any dis-
cussions that he has with his cli-
ent.”
And Mr. Giuliani’s lawyer,
Robert Costello, said, “He’s not
concerned about this investiga-
tion because he didn’t do anything
wrong, and that’s been our posi-
tion from Day 1.”
The Fox News host and Trump
ally Sean Hannity said on Monday
that given the animosity from
Democrats directed at Mr. Trump,
the president should consider par-
doning his entire family. “If Biden
ever became president, I’d tell
Trump pardon yourself and par-
don your family,” Mr. Hannity told
his viewers.
Mr. Trump is an avid consumer
of Fox News, particularly Mr.
Hannity’s show.
Such a broad pardon pre-empt-
ing any charge or conviction is
highly unusual but does have
precedent. In the most famous ex-
ample, President Gerald R. Ford
pardoned Richard M. Nixon for all
of his actions as president. Presi-
dent George Washington par-
doned plotters of the Whiskey Re-
bellion, shielding them from trea-
son prosecutions. And President
Jimmy Carter pardoned thou-
sands of American men who ille-
gally avoided the draft for the
Vietnam War.
Mr. Trump has wielded his
clemency powers liberally in
cases that resonate with him per-
sonally or for people who have a
direct line to him through friends
or family, while thousands of other
cases await his review.
A pardon for Mr. Giuliani is cer-
tain to prompt accusations that
Mr. Trump has used his pardon
power to obstruct investigations
and insulate himself and his allies.
Andrew A. Weissmann, a top pros-
ecutor for Mr. Mueller, has said
that Mr. Trump’s dangling of par-
dons for his allies impeded their
work.
In July, the president com-
muted the sentence of his long-
time adviser Roger J. Stone Jr.,
who had refused to cooperate with
the special counsel’s investigators
and was eventually convicted of
seven felonies. Last week, Mr.
Trump pardoned his former na-
tional security adviser Michael T.
Flynn, who had backed out of his
cooperation agreement with the
special counsel’s office for “any
and all possible offenses” beyond
the charge he had faced of lying to
federal investigators.
The Flynn pardon raised expec-
tations that Mr. Trump would be-
stow clemency on other associ-
ates — like his former campaign
chairman Paul Manafort, who re-
fused to discuss matters from the
2016 election with prosecutors —
in his final weeks in office.
Mr. Giuliani has asked Mr.
Trump’s campaign to pay him
$20,000 a day for his work on try-
ing to overturn the election, which
would make him among the most
highly paid lawyers in the world.
The staggering sum has stirred
opposition among Mr. Trump’s
aides who worry that Mr. Giuliani
has perpetuated the claims of
election fraud in hopes of making
as much money as possible.
Mr. Giuliani has expressed con-
cern that any federal investiga-
tions of his conduct that appear to
have been dormant under the
Trump administration could be re-
vived in a Biden administration,
according to people who have spo-
ken to him.Legal experts say that if Mr.
Trump wants to fully protect Mr.
Giuliani from prosecution after he
leaves office, the president would
most likely have to detail in the
language of the pardon what
crimes he believed Mr. Giuliani
had committed.
Federal prosecutors in Manhat-
tan have since 2019 been investi-
gating the role of Mr. Giuliani and
two other associates in a wide-
ranging pressure campaign di-
rected at pushing the Ukrainian
government to investigate Mr.
Trump’s rivals, namely Mr. Bi-
den’s son Hunter Biden.
The two Giuliani associates —
Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman —
were arrested in October 2019 as
they prepared to board a flight
from Washington to Frankfurt
with one-way tickets. They were
charged with violating campaign
finance laws as part of a complex
scheme to undermine the former
American ambassador in
Ukraine, Marie L. Yovanovitch,
who Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Trump
believed should have been doing
more to pressure the Ukrainians.
Prosecutors in Manhattan con-
tinued to investigate Mr. Giuliani’s
role in the scheme over the past
year, focusing on whether he was,
in pushing to oust Ms.
Yovanovitch, essentially double
dipping: working not only for Mr.
Trump but also for Ukrainian offi-
cials who wanted the ambassador
gone for their own reasons, ac-
cording to people briefed on the
matter.
It is a federal crime to try to in-
fluence the United States govern-
ment at the request or direction of
a foreign official without disclos-
ing their involvement. Mr. Giuli-
ani has said that he did nothing
wrong and that he did not register
as a foreign agent because he was
acting on behalf of Mr. Trump, not
any Ukrainians.
Even as Mr. Trump maintains
that the election was stolen and
files lawsuits aimed at delaying itscertification, his White House is
preparing for the final stages of
his presidency. The end of any ad-
ministration typically prompts a
wave of pardons, particularly
when a term has been engulfed in
controversy like Mr. Trump’s.
“The pardon power has been
used by many presidents in politi-
cally self-serving ways, whether it
was George H.W. Bush or Clin-
ton,” said Jack L. Goldsmith, a
professor at Harvard Law School,
citing how Mr. Bush pardoned six
of his associates — including the
former Defense Secretary Caspar
W. Weinberger — for their role in
the Iran-contra affair.
“Politically, a pardon of Giuliani
would be explosive,” Mr. Gold-
smith added, “but pardoning pals
has been done before.”
Under previous administra-
tions, presidents have largelygranted pardons after they have
gone through a formal review
process at the Justice Depart-
ment, where lawyers examined
the convictions, discussed the
ramifications of a potential par-
don with prosecutors and then
provided the White House with
recommendations on how to pro-
ceed. On several occasions, Mr.
Trump has gone against the Jus-
tice Department’s recommenda-
tions and the advice of his own
White House advisers, granting
pardons to political allies and ce-
lebrities.
When presidents have deviated
from that process, scandals have
occasionally occurred, especially
after pardons in the last days of an
administration. On the final day ofBill Clinton’s presidency, he
granted a pardon to Marc Rich, a
wealthy financier and longtime
Democratic donor who was con-
sidered a fugitive as he had fled
the United States to avoid tax
charges.
Prosecutors in Manhattan in-
vestigated whether the pardon
had been part of a quid pro quo,
but no one was ever charged. At
the time, Mr. Giuliani, who had
helped bring criminal charges
against Mr. Rich years earlier as a
federal prosecutor, was deeply
critical of the move, calling it “a
disgrace” and declaring it “a mid-
night pardon.”
No president has tried to grant
someone a pardon for crimes they
have not yet committed — essen-
tially a prospective get-out-of-jail-
free card — and legal experts say
it is unlikely to hold any weight. In
the case of Donald Trump Jr., Mr.
Mueller’s investigation examined
questions of whether his contacts
during the 2016 election with Wiki-
Leaks and Russians offering dirt
on Mrs. Clinton amounted to cam-
paign finance violations. Donald
Trump Jr. was never interviewed
by the special counsel’s office and
was never charged.
In the case of Mr. Kushner, he
omitted several significant con-
tacts with foreigners when he
filled out a form for his White
House security clearance, includ-
ing ones with the Russians offer-
ing damaging information on Mrs.
Clinton during the campaign. Un-
der federal law it is a crime to pro-
vide inaccurate or incomplete in-
formation on the background
check documents for security
clearances.
In 2018, the White House coun-
sel and chief of staff recom-
mended that Mr. Kushner not re-
ceive a Top Secret security clear-
ance because of issues that had
been discovered during his back-
ground check. Over the objections
of Mr. Trump’s aides, the presi-
dent unilaterally granted Mr.
Kushner the clearance.Trump Is Said to Discuss Pardons for Family and Giuliani
From Page ABen Protess contributed reporting.
Rudolph W. Giuliani, the personal lawyer to President Trump, is said to have recently discussed the idea of a pardon with Mr. Trump.ERIN SCHAFF/THE NEW YORK TIMESIssuing pardons is not
uncommon. Issuing
them in advance is.
ATLANTA — In one of the most
striking rebukes to President
Trump since he launched his base-
less attacks on the American elec-
toral process, a top-ranking Geor-
gia election official lashed out at
the president on Tuesday for fail-
ing to condemn threats of violence
against people overseeing the vot-
ing system in his state.
“It has to stop,” Gabriel Ster-
ling, a Republican and Georgia’s
voting system implementation
manager, said at an afternoon
news conference at the State Capi-
tol, his voice shaking with emo-
tion. “Mr. President, you have not
condemned these actions or this
language.”
He added: “This is elections.
This is the backbone of democra-
cy, and all of you who have not said
a damn word are complicit in this.
It’s too much.”
Mr. Sterling’s outburst of anger
and frustration came amid a sus-
tained assault on Georgia’s elec-
tion process by Mr. Trump as he
seeks to reverse his loss to his
Democratic rival, former Vice
President Joseph R. Biden Jr. Mr.
Sterling, who previously said he
had received threats, said that
threats had also been made
against the wife of his superior,
Brad Raffensperger, the Republi-
can secretary of state.
“Mr. President, it looks like you
likely lost the state of Georgia,”
Mr. Sterling said. He added that
the president needed to “step up”
and say, “Stop inspiring people to
commit potential acts of violence.
Someone is going to get hurt,
someone is going to get shot,
someone is going to get killed.
And it’s not right.”
Mr. Sterling also called on the
state’s two Republican senators,
David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler,
to condemn the rhetoric that he
said was getting dangerously out
of hand. The two senators, both
Trump loyalists, have called for
Mr. Raffensperger to resign.
As Mr. Trump hurls false claims
of fraud in Georgia, a number of
lawsuits filed by conservatives in
state and federal courts are seek-
ing to decertify the results. The
second of two recounts requested
by the Trump campaign is ex-
pected to wind up Wednesday.
And the Georgia Republican
Party has descended into a state
of virtual civil war as some of its
most powerful players maneuver
and malign their rivals, seeking
advantage, or at least survival.
In the meantime, Mr. Trump
continues to lash out at Gov. Brian
Kemp and Mr. Raffensperger, both
staunch Republicans and Trump
supporters, over the fact that helost Georgia, saying they have not
sufficiently rooted out fraud.
As late as Tuesday morning, Mr.
Trump made the latest in a series
of unsubstantiated claims about
the Georgia election, writing on
Twitter that the state had been
“scammed” and urging Mr. Kemp
to “call off” the election.
Some of Mr. Trump’s supporters
have taken to the streets and the
Capitol building in downtown At-
lanta, where the conspiracy theo-
rist Alex Jones of Infowars re-
cently joined them. In other cases,
Trump supporters have harassed
or threatened Mr. Sterling, Mr.
Raffensperger and others.
In a statement Tuesday
evening, Tim Murtaugh, a spokes-
man for the Trump campaign,
said: “The campaign is focused on
ensuring that all legal votes are
counted and all illegal votes are
not. No one should engage in
threats or violence, and if that has
happened, we condemn that fully.”
Amid all of this, Mr. Sterling, a
detail-oriented former city coun-
cilman from the Atlanta suburb of
Sandy Springs, has taken on a
prominent role in the state as it
conducted its recounts. Along
with Mr. Raffensperger, he has of-
ten been the main speaker in nu-
merous news conferences in
which he has explained the com-
plexities of Georgia’s election and
recount systems and has arguedthat the results, which currently
show Mr. Biden winning by about
12,700 votes, are trustworthy.
Ari Schaffer, press secretary for
the secretary of state’s office, did
not answer directly when asked
Tuesday whether Mr. Raf-
fensperger had given Mr. Sterling
his blessing to speak out so force-
fully against the president. But he
noted that the deputy secretary of
state, Jordan Fuchs, had been
standing near Mr. Sterling when
he made his statements.
“Gabriel has my support,” Ms.
Fuchs said independently in a text
message.
Late Tuesday, representatives
for Ms. Loeffler and Mr. Perdue
said they condemned violence of
any kind but also said they would
not apologize for seeking account-
ability and accuracy in the state’selections.
In the second of two news con-
ferences called by the secretary of
state’s office on Tuesday, Mr. Ster-
ling, speaking loudly, emotionally
and deliberately, said that people
had intruded on Mr. Raffensperg-
er’s personal property. He said
that Mr. Raffensperger’s wife “is
getting sexualized threats
through her cellphone.” He men-
tioned that he had police protec-
tion outside his own house, a topic
he had also broached in a Nov. 21
tweet.
“So this is fun... multiple at-
tempted hacks of my emails, po-
lice protection around my home,
the threats,” Mr. Sterling wrote
then. “But all is well... following
the law, following the process...
doing our jobs.”
On Tuesday, Mr. Sterling alsomade references to reports that
Joe diGenova, a lawyer for the
Trump campaign, had said that
Chris Krebs — a former federal
cybersecurity official who
vouched that the election was
clean — should be shot. (Mr.
diGenova later said his remarks
had been “made in jest.”)
But Mr. Sterling said that “the
straw that broke the camel’s back”
had involved a threat against a 20-
year-old contractor for a voting
system company in Gwinnett
County. He said the young worker
had been targeted by someone
who hung a noose and declared
that the worker should be “hung
for treason,” simply for doing a
routine element of his job. Mr.
Sterling did not provide any other
details.
“I can’t begin to explain the lev-
el of anger I have right now over
this,” he said. “And every Ameri-
can, every Georgian, Republican
and Democrat alike, should have
that same level of anger.”
Details of the noose incident Mr.
Sterling cited could not be corrob-
orated Tuesday. Cpl. Ryan Wind-
erweedle, a spokesman for the
Gwinnett County Police Depart-
ment, said that he did not have
any information about such an in-
cident but noted that it could have
occurred beyond that depart-
ment’s jurisdiction.Georgia Election Official Lashes Out
At Trump for Not Condemning Threats
By RICHARD FAUSSETMaggie Haberman contributed re-
porting from New York.
Gabriel Sterling, a Georgia elections official and a Republican,
strongly condemned his party’s attacks on election workers.BRYNN ANDERSON/ASSOCIATED PRESS‘Someone is going to
get shot, someone is
going to get killed.’
The Justice Department has
been investigating whether inter-
mediaries for a federal convict of-
fered White House officials a bribe
in exchange for a potential pardon
or commutation from President
Trump, according to court docu-
ments unsealed by a federal judge
on Tuesday.
The documents were heavily re-
dacted, and it was unclear who
may have been involved. Nothing
directly tied Mr. Trump to the
scheme, and the documents said
no one had been charged.
The documents offered only
scant clues about what the White
House may have known about the
scheme. One passage appears to
show that a lawyer for the convict
had discussions with the White
House Counsel’s Office about a
pardon or commutation, but it was
unclear whether the discussions
were part of the scheme or a nor-
mal back-and-forth with the White
House about a convict’s case.
The information about the po-
tential scheme was included in an
opinion, dated Aug. 28, from the
chief United States district judge
for the District of Columbia, Beryl
A. Howell, who was weighing
whether to allow federal prosecu-
tors to examine evidence — like
emails — that may have been pro-
tected by attorney-client privi-
lege.
Judge Howell granted the pros-
ecutors access to the materials.Investigators suspected that
the convict seeking the pardon
was imprisoned as recently as this
summer and that two people
working on behalf of the convict
may have undertaken a secret lob-
bying campaign by approaching
White House officials, according
to the documents.
The two people may have of-
fered to funnel money as political
donations in exchange for the par-
don or commutation, although it
was unclear where the money was
supposed to be sent.
Given Mr. Trump’s undisci-
plined approach to pardons, the
disclosure, coming amid a flurry
of reports about how Mr. Trump
has been discussing whether to
pardon his children and close con-
fidants in the final weeks of his
presidency, raised fears that the
pardon process may have been
corrupted.
Mr. Trump pardoned his former
national security adviser Michael
T. Flynn on Wednesday, and had
talks with his personal lawyer Ru-
dolph W. Giuliani last week about
a pre-emptive pardon for Mr. Giu-
liani before he leaves office. The
president has also had discus-
sions with advisers about how he
fears that a Biden Justice Depart-
ment could seek retribution
against him by prosecuting his
children.Justice Dept.
Investigating
Potential Bribe
For a Pardon
By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDTCourt files offer few
clues about who may
have been involved.