106 PLATO
“You’re talking about a unified front among arguments,” I said, “and here I was
imagining I could run away from one of them, if it seemed to you to be beneficial, and
I’d have the one about whether it’s possible or not left.”
“But you didn’t get away with running away,” he said, “so give an account of
yourself on both counts.”
“I’ll have to stand trial,” I said. “Do me this much of a favor though; let me go
about it holiday-style, like dawdlers who’re in the habit of feasting on their own
thoughts when they’re walking by themselves. People like that, you know, before find-
ing out how there can be some thing they desire, put that aside so they won’t wear them-
selves out pondering about what’s possible or not, and taking it for granted that the
thing they want is already there, they’re already arranging the rest and enjoying going
through the sorts of things they’ll do when it happens, and otherwise making a lazy soul
even lazier. I’ve gotten soft myself by now, and on those questions I desire to put them
off and consider later how they’re possible, but now, taking it for granted that they’re
possible, if you let me, I’ll consider how the rulers will organize them when they hap-
pen, and what would be the most advantageous way, for both the city and the guardians,
for them to be done. I’ll try together with you to consider these things first, and those
later, if you give permission.”
“I do give permission,” he said; “go ahead and consider.”
“I imagine, then,” I said, “if in fact the rulers are going to be worthy of that
name, and their auxiliaries by the same token worthy of theirs, the ones will wish to
follow orders and the others to give them, while the latter themselves obey the laws on
some matters, but imitate the laws on all the other matters that we’ll leave up to their
judgment.”
“That sounds right,” he said.
“Then you,” I said, “as their lawgiver, once you’ve selected the women in the
same way you also selected the men, will distribute them as far as possible to those with
similar natures; and they, since they have their houses and meals in common, and none
of them possesses any property of that sort privately, will be together, and while they’re
mingled together in the gyms and in the rest of their upbringing, they’ll be led, I imag-
ine, by an inborn necessity, toward mingling with each other sexually. Or do the things
I’m talking about not seem necessary to you?”
“Not in the geometrical sense anyway,” he said, “but they seem to be necessities
of an erotic sort, which are liable to be sharper than the former at persuading and attract-
ing most of the populace.”
“Very much so,” I said. “But the next thing to consider, Glaucon, is that unregu-
lated sexual contact with one another, or doing anything else at all of that sort, isn’t
pious in a city of people favored by destiny, and the rulers aren’t going to allow it.”
“No, it wouldn’t be just,” he said.
“So it’s clear that the next thing we’ll do is make marriages sacred to the greatest
extent possible, and it’s the most beneficial ones that would be sacred.”
“Absolutely so.”
“So in what way will they be the most beneficial? Tell me this, Glaucon, because
I see in your household both hunting dogs and true-bred birds in great numbers. Well,
by Zeus, have you paid any attention to their matings and breeding?”
“To what sort of thing?” he said.
“First, among those of the same kind, even though they’re true bred, aren’t there
some that also turn out best?”
“There are.”458a
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