36primarily racial injustice— that you began to view
through the lens of Islam. But you haven’t said, as
members of al- Qaeda do, that you were incensed
by the sacrilege of infi del boots on the ground near
Muslim holy sites on the Arabian Peninsula. To
what degree did religious beliefs— a desire for mar-
tyrdom, for instance— motivate you and your fellow
Islamists? And if no such ideas were operative, can
you discuss the religious difference between a rev-
olutionary Islamist outlook and a jihadist one?Nawaz Yes, sure, of course. There are indeed similari-
ties and differences between Islamism and ji-
hadism. We shouldn’t be surprised by this— the
same applies when we look at, say, communism.
Socialists are on one end, and communists on the
other; some are militant, and some aren’t. It’s the
same with Islamism.
Now, I’ve argued that the motivation for Islamists
and jihadists is ideological dogma, fed to them by
charismatic recruiters who play on a perceived
sense of grievance and an identity crisis. In fact, I
believe that four elements exist in all forms of ide-
ological recruitment: a grievance narrative, whether
real or perceived; an identity crisis; a charismatic
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