most poets because you should have some
awareness of the profession....
Do you think it’s possible for writers to
express their convictions strongly enough or imag-
inatively enough to change the mind of anybody?
I don’t think that writers ever changed the
mind of anybody. I think we always preach to
the saved. Someone from thePostasked me,
how would I describe myself, and I said, ‘‘I’m a
preacher to the saved.’’ And I don’t think that
anybody’s mind has ever been changed. It has
been enhanced by an already-meeting-of-the-
minds. When the reader picks up the book and
proceeds to begin a relationship, it will proceed
based upon how that book and that reader are
already in agreement. Because almost nobody
really reads anything that they are totally...I
mean, I couldn’t read a position paper about
the Ku Klux Klan.
You mean, you, literally, could not get
through it?
I wouldn’t even try. Why? Because I already
know. To me it’s like reading—which I guess I
shouldn’t say to you like this—but it’s like reading
anti-abortion literature. I’m totally in opposition
to their position. Unless I can read a headline that
says they bring something new to the table, then
no, I’m not going to do that, because I already
know where they are, and what I’m going to do is
look for a strengthening of my position, where I
am. And everybody does that.
And again, I’m out of the tradition of the
sixtiesthatsortofcrazilybelievedthatthere
would be the poem that would free everybody.
You would say to those people, ‘‘listen, fellows,
that’s not going to happen.’’ The big term, of
course, was ‘‘sell out,’’ and everybody that didn’t
do what certain groups wanted—you know, Leroi
Jones and all of them—everybody that didn’t sort
of hew the Black aesthetic line had ‘‘soldout.’’ No.
Therewillneverbethepoem that will free man-
kind. We would be fools... anybody that thinks
that is a fool. And I don’t really know another
term for that.
Anybody that thinks any one thing or one
person can make a difference in your life.... If
we could crucify Jesus, you know, whom we
recognize in the western world as being the Son
of God, then you know we would shoot down
everybody. Now there are people who charis-
matically do make a difference. We were talking
about holding two [opposing] thoughts, but I do
that a lot. There are people who charismatically
embody an age. But they didn’t create the age.
They personified it, and people often overlook
that. They really think somebody... they really
think Disraeli made [his age]. He didn’t. He was
the one who could personify it. Or Jack Ken-
nedy. Now, I happen to like the Kennedys. I find
them interesting people to read about. But Jack
didn’t make the sixties. Nor did Martin Luther
King. We honor them, and we recognize them,
because they personify the best within us. But
they didn’t create it. It was the little old ladies
that said, ‘‘I’ll walk,’’ that made Martin Luther
King. It was the kind that said, ‘‘even after his
death we’re antiwar. We’re going to move even
this image that we will maintain, but we’re going
to move it and make it much more.’’ People
overlook that, because they think that you
could do something. They’ll tell you, ‘‘Fidel Cas-
tro liberated Cuba.’’ I’ll be damned if he did,
whatever you feel about Cuba. Fidel personifies
that liberation. Therefore, to the Cuban people,
it would probably be a loss had he been killed,
say twenty years ago. I’m sure that they’re ready
to accept it now, not because Fidel was a loss,
though of course it would be a loss to whomever
loved him, but because he was the embodiment.
The same thing with our community. It was
so unnecessary to shoot down Martin Luther
King. And what happened there was that a
man lost his life, but it was a message. And
what it said was, ‘‘since we can’t shoot a million
people, we’ll shoot this one, so that the million
people will know that this is where we are.’’ And
of course what you got from that was a perfectly
logical response: ‘‘Mother F——, since you did
that, we will get you.’’ So that you got, of course,
the riots coming. There was no question that the
Black community was going to respond to the
white community. You sent the message, and we
sent the answer. So that everybody said, ‘‘okay,
well, tell you what, since I can’t bring back my
cities, and you can’t bring back King, why don’t
we try peace.’’ And you just wish that people
would function on that a little bit, and earlier.
We recognize that at some point if the message is
sent, and an answer is sent, that we still have to
come back to peace.
Sounds to me, and correct me if I misunder-
stood you, that in all that, the role of the writer is
very much like that of the historian rather than the
prophet. Or possibly the prophecy comes in—and I
used the word, ‘‘role,’’ again, I realize, the functionWinter