Forbes Asia — October 2017

GENERAL STANLEY MCCHRYSTAL SPOKE WITH RICH KARLGAARD, OUR EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND GLOBAL FUTURIST. THIS INTERVIEW HAS

BEEN EDITED AND CONDENSED. FOR THE EXTENDED CONVERSATION, VISIT FORBES.COM/SITES/RICHKARLGAARD.

What kind of companies seek out your

consulting firm, the McChrystal Group?

It’s not a failing company, but they’ll say,

“We are too slow making decisions. We are

ineffective at implementing decisions.”

Your epiphany about speed and flexibility came

during your career in the military, fighting al

Qaeda in Iraq and as well as groups such as ISIS.

We had purposely built a counterterrorist

force, JSOC, and over 22 years we had

tweaked it until it was unparalleled in

the world, in terms of competence and

professionalism, as well as in its use of

existing technologies. We could do things

that were literally elegant: precision raids,

hostage rescues and whatnot. We were

a beautifully crafted bullet

that would fly straight and

true, and be lethal if aimed

correctly and fired at the

right time. But we weren’t

responsible for those two

parts of things—which is

fine, as long as you’re going

up against a somewhat

predictable enemy. But in

Iraq we got into a constantly

changing environment,

against a different kind of

enemy, and, suddenly, we

had to operate much faster

and couldn’t take our time

painting the Sistine Chapel.

We had to paint faster and

get the job done quickly. We

stopped being able to be the

bullet; we had to become the

gun. The bullet still needed to

be good, but elegance was less

important than effectiveness.

And we couldn’t do it just

once; we had to literally

change the organization on a

daily basis.

Did you have to upend the classic

military hierarchy?

Not formally. But it changed

who got what information,

how it was controlled, where

decisions were made. That was

against al Qaeda in Iraq. If

you think about ISIS now, ISIS is Uber.

I don’t think Uber would like the comparison.

But like Uber, ISIS has little capital

investment in what they’re doing. They’re

creating franchises, and those franchises

are very well suited to the conditions on the

ground because they formed themselves,

and they constantly adapt. The upside for

ISIS is that these groups are willing to call

themselves ISIS. If they succeed, that’s good,

but if they fail, ISIS has no investment.

How do you encourage people to share power in

an organization? It can seem like no one wants to.

It’s just not our nature. The trick is to

convince people at different parts in the

organization that it’s in their interest. You

incentivize them to be connected to the

larger goals.

How do you create what you call a shared-

consciousness culture?

Tell people how to think about things and

the broader mission. There’s a great line we

used to use in Afghanistan: “If, when you get

on the ground, the order that we gave you is

wrong, execute the order that we should have

given you.” Think about the responsibility

you’re giving your subordinates when you

issue that instruction.

Can you create a flexible group without lots of

debate and argument?

No. In all healthy organizations, argument

happens face-to-face. You debate, argue

and move on. By the way, there’s a pile

of argument in the military. It just takes

different forms. But when the landing-craft

ramp drops and hits the beach, that’s not a

time to argue the plan.

Do you seek diversity or uniformity in teams?

Diversity is better. The challenge is creating

diversity that communicates well. If you

take a SEAL or a Ranger organization, they

look homogenous. But they have a range

of thinking styles. Good commanders

encourage diverse thinking and use that to

test their thinking in various directions.

Switching subjects, how do you keep so fit?

I get up and run for at least an hour and then

stretch. On alternate days, I will get up and

do about an hour of abs and core workouts in

the house, and then I’ll go to the gym.

Then you go to the gym?

For another hour or 4 0 minutes of weights

and pull-ups. I almost never take a day off.

And somehow you eat just one meal a day.

I’ve been doing it for about 4 0 years,

just because I thought I was getting fat.

Everybody told me how stupid I was, how

it’s bad for my body. Now they’re starting

to say it’s okay, even good. In a few years,

they’ll say it’s bad again. I’m 63. If I change

suddenly now, it might kill me.

Combat Consultant

Ex-U.S. general Stanley McChrystal on the importance of flexible

teams, disagreement and eating just one meal a day.

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