never had an opportunity to meet with LGBT people said to me, “Can you answer me this
question: do gay couples actually love each other?” And he had never had the opportunity to
take that seriously. I’d say he was a man in his late forties. On the one hand the question was
profoundly offensive. But on the other hand he was asking it truthfully because his life, his
circumstance, and the fear that he had been schooled in, had not led him to consider this.
So he was asking a question to which he didn’t know the answer. I said, “Yes, we do.” And I
told him some stories of Paul and stories of other people I knew who loved each other. And he
said, “Thank you. I’m so glad to hear that.” The entire thing was so indicative of something
horrible at work, that I couldn’t change that massive culture he was part of. But were I to
have shamed him for asking the question I don’t think he would have made a shift. And I
think he would have had more capacity to educate others than I would ever have. You do feel
complicit and a little corrupt by taking part in that kind of engagement—it’s certainly not for
everybody. I don’t think it’s a great moral height or a virtuous ascent to be part of that. It’s
just one of the pieces of work that has to be done. And you don’t have to do it. Some people
will find their deepest integrity in protest and in calling things out, so I don’t take that away.
I think there needs to be all kinds of responses.Yeah. I often find when I’m working with groups
of people who are profoundly divided—I’ve
done some of this work in Ireland and Scotland
and Uganda and the States and Australia and
elsewhere as well—I usually do try to have some
kind of gathering of just telling the truth about
where we’re at: “There are people in the room here
you disagree with or find difficult. You are possibly wondering how you can make a speedy
exit. You’re possibly waiting for somebody to say the very thing that’ll give you the excuse
to justify your leaving,” et cetera. To just say, “Well here we are. Listen to all of these things.
And these things are true for many of us. Some of your fears are echoed with somebody with
whom you profoundly disagree, but actually they have the same tactics up their sleeve for
deciding whether or not they’ll stay. Also, what’s impossible is that anyone can force you to
change your mind. So you can leave with all of your thoughts and opinions as intact as they
were. Lovely. Great. Now let’s do something interesting.And exercise the deepest muscle of your integrity, curiosity and surprise. And let’s see
what happens.”You know, I remember
that workshop
intimately. I think
back on that day
regularly and of
the things people
shared and the way
that that room heldIt struck me when you were saying that, and I think
that’s so compelling, that we live in a culture that’s really
aspirational. You can spend all of your time forming these
marvellous far-reaching goals and all of this energy goes
into what you’re aspiring to rather than actually beginning
from the truth of where you are here and now.
Oh. I’m just smiling listening to this. I have seen you introduce activities into a group of
people that disarm them in the most beautiful way. I remember once you were leading
a storytelling group that I was with. And you invited us all to write just two lines about
a moment that had happened to us that day. To write it down and then fold it up and
we’d put them in together and each read out a random piece. And the only rule was
that you weren’t allowed to express recognition of your own and not give that pride of,
“Oh mine’s the one that’s going to make people laugh!” Or, “mine’s going to be the most
interesting one!” It was so disarming and allowed so many other things to happen.Let’s ask questions the likes of which you never
imagined you’d ask and hear answers the likes
of which you never imagined you’d hear.47PEACE MAKERCONVERSATIONS