58 new york | august 5–18, 2019
referred to it as ‘stark,’ ” he says. “This
show is no longer stark. This show is in
the summer!”TOM STURRIDGE: I want to start with
October Sky ... [Gyllenhaal’s 1999 break-
through film role as a coal miner’s son].
JAKE GYLLENHAAL: [Laughs] Can
you imagine? By the end of this interview,
we’d hate each other.
TS: I don’t know how you came into
contact with Nick [Payne].
JG: I went to a reading of a friend’s show,
and Lynne Meadow, the artistic director,
said, “I’m going to give you a couple of dif-
ferent playwrights that I think you’d be
interested in,” and Nick happened to be one
of those, and If There Is I Haven’t Found It
Yet happened to be one of the plays. I imme-
diately fell in love with it. Then, as the uni-
verse would have it, the next thing we did
was Constellations [also by Payne]. Why
did you want to do your piece?
TS: When I first read it, I felt so close to it
because of how beautifully it articulated
exactly how I felt about my family. The
majority of the play is about the birth of a
family and how wonderful that is. That is
rare onstage because we’re supposed to
make things interesting by everybody hat-
ing each other. I thought, These circum-
stances are very similar to my own.
I don’t think I ever hesitated. For you, Nick
did a reading [of A Life, then called Art of
Dying] at the Royal Court, which, in my
understanding of it, was like a man reading
an essay. Was it a leap of imagination to
think of it as theater?
JG: It felt blazingly, gloriously, insanely
clear only because it was so filled with feel-
ing. It was this sort of obtuse soliloquy that
Nick had written for himself because it was
just him trying to come to terms with the
experience of his father’s passing.
TS: Did you think you were going to play
Nick Payne?
JG: Never. There are moments when it
bleeds in, but I resisted that. He wrote a lot
of things for me, too. My rhythms and my
way of speaking are incorporated. It’s a
strange mix of the two of us and the way we
speak. The reason I like his writing, and
probably you can hear from this interview,
is we trip over words, and we add other
words. That’s where we meet.
TS: Struggling to find language?
JG: I think I still continue to grapple
with how personal moments of it really
are. Sometimes I feel like I’m potentially
violating fiction and nonfiction, whatever
that boundary is. I just recently came back
from this big long press tour all around the
world [for Spider-Man: Far From Home]
in different time zones, and I would comefrom the airport, and I would do the piece
in traffic if I was in Seoul or London or
wherever, headed to some radio interview
or something. I would do it when I would
wake up and I couldn’t sleep. I do it, still,
whenever I wake up, even if it’s in an
unconscious state. It’s rare that I think a
performer gets the opportunity to do
something again and to rediscover certain
things. In our preview period at the Public,
you did some pretty wacky shit ...
TS: I don’t know whether this is an Eng-
lish sensibility for me, but it really is an
extension of the rehearsal process. There’s
an audience there, but they should know
they’re watching an experiment. In the first
preview, I did it with a microphone, having
never held a microphone in my life. But I
think the ex citing thing about returning to
it is going into even more detail. Before, we
were just going, “Can we get through these
ten minutes without people falling asleep?”
Now we can really do surgery.JG: Do you think about me and my story
coming up next?
TS: I’m completely conscious of the baton
I pass on. In the first preview, I exited in a
fury, in character, disgusted that he had told
the story to these people. You could feel the
audience think, Well, why the fuck did you
tell it? I think it’s okay to lead them in differ-
ent ways, but it’s important to know what
you’re doing and that you remember [the
character’s] love at the end.
JG: I mean, monologues already have
that perception of actor indulgence. These
are monologues about loss. How do you get
out of that box? If anyone knows us both as
actors, the last thing you would want to do
is indulge that thing. I want to ride the roller
coaster of a million different feelings. I do
think that is really about people walking out
of the theater at the end of this experience
feeling—as my mom used to say to me when
I’d see a movie that I’d love or had an experi-
ence that I loved—clean.
TS: That’s the contract we ask of the
audience: Have faith in love in the begin-
ning. We’re here to create a community
together and to do something beautiful.
Not “Here we go, this is going to be really
depressing.” The audience really does dic-tate the way things go. If one person
laughs at something because of some per-
sonal connection with it, I’m just—zoom,
wherever they are, the next four minutes
is for you. It ’s not a bad thing. I’m acknowl-
edging you coughed, whatever, your phone
can go off, we’re here together.
JG: “Come to Broadway, citizen. Unwrap
those candies.”
TS: Everyone in the audience is only one
step away from almost all of the experi-
ences of this evening. Afterward, when we
talk to people, they don’t talk about the
specifics of the play; they talk about their
father or their child. That’s why we
brought it to Broadway, because the public
felt such ownership of it.
JG: If we’re speaking honestly, there was
sort of that desire for indulgence, the acting
indulgence. Then what was given to us as a
response was people sharing their own per-
sonal experiences with us, which made us
realize this thing was bigger than what we
were doing. And then all of a sudden, the
show became a show.
TS: Having done a number of plays, is
there any difference in what you feel ten
minutes before the first preview?
JG: When I did If There Is I Haven’t
Found It Yet, I was nervous every night.
When I did Sunday in the Park With
George, I wasn’t nervous any second of it.
TS: Really?
JG: Even when we did it at City Center.
You are enveloped and wrapped by a
25-piece orchestra, or I was. Of course,
there have been times with this show,
before I went out, when I was nervous. But
I knew somewhere that it didn’t work
unless I wasn’t hiding anything. All the
audience loves is that imperfection. It’s
what we all lean forward for. That’s what
I’ve discovered onstage, and it’s a beautiful
thing because it has helped me in my life
and in my movie work. You can hate me or
love me or whatever, but ultimately this is
how I am. How about you?
TS: Hours before [I went on], simply the
idea of ge tting from the beginning to the
end was terrifying. The way I walked
onstage at the Public, at least in the begin-
ning, was like the scene in Gladiator when
he first goes out in the arena.
JG: “Are you not entertained?!”
TS: I do remember being out there with
the audience for the first time and the
nerves completely disappearing and real-
izing that this was the safest place to be. Is
there something you’re afraid of, going into
this new experience?
JG: I mean, we have two days’ rehearsal
and two days of tech. We haven’t done the
show in four months.
TS: Fair enough, I’m afraid now. ■“Come to
Broadway,
ci tizen.
Unwrap those
ca ndies.”The CULTURE PAGESPREVIOUS SPREAD: GYLLENHAAL GROOMING BY KUMI CRAIG AT THE WALL GROUPADVANCED FORMTRANSMITTED
________ COPY ___ DD ___ AD ___ PD ___ EIC1619CR_jake_tom_lay [Print]_35544767.indd 58 7/31/19 1:53 PM58 newyork| august5–18, 2019
referredtoitas‘stark,’” hesays.“This
showisnolongerstark.Thisshowisin
thesummer!”
TOMSTURRIDGE:I wanttostart with
OctoberSky...[Gyllenhaal’s 1999break-
throughfilmroleasa coalminer’s son].
JAKEGYLLENHAAL:[Laughs] Can
youimagine?Bytheendofthisinterview,
we’d hateeachother.
TS:I don’t knowhowyoucameinto
contactwithNick[Payne].
JG:I wenttoa readingofa friend’s show,
andLynneMeadow,theartisticdirector,
said,“I’mgoingtogiveyoua coupleofdif-
ferentplaywrightsthat I thinkyou’d be
interestedin,” andNickhappenedtobeone
ofthose,andIf There Is I Haven’tFoundIt
Yethappenedtobeoneof theplays.I imme-
diatelyfellinlovewithit.Then,astheuni-
versewouldhaveit,thenextthingwedid
wasConstellations[alsobyPayne].Why
didyouwanttodoyourpiece?
TS:WhenI first readit,I feltsoclosetoit
becauseofhowbeautifullyit articulated
exactlyhowI feltaboutmy family. The
majorityoftheplay is aboutthebirthofa
familyandhowwonderfulthat is.Thatis
rare onstagebecausewe’resupposedto
makethingsinterestingbyeverybodyhat-
ingeachother.I thought,Thesecircum-
stances are very similar tomy own.
I don’t thinkI everhesitated.Foryou,Nick
dida reading[ofA Life,thencalledArtof
Dying] at theRoyalCourt, which,inmy
understandingofit,waslike a manreading
anessay. Wasit a leapofimaginationto
thinkofit astheater?
JG:It feltblazingly, gloriously, insanely
clearonlybecauseit wassofilledwithfeel-
ing.It wasthissort ofobtusesoliloquythat
Nickhadwrittenforhimselfbecauseit was
justhimtryingtocometotermswiththe
experienceofhisfather’spassing.
TS:Didyouthinkyouweregoingtoplay
NickPayne?
JG:Never.Thereare momentswhenit
bleedsin,butI resistedthat. He wrotea lot
ofthingsforme,too.Myrhythmsandmy
wayofspeakingare incorporated.It’sa
strangemixofthetwoofusandtheway we
speak.ThereasonI like hiswriting,and
probablyyoucanhearfromthisinterview,
iswetripoverwords,andweaddother
words.That’swhere wemeet.
TS:Strugglingtofindlanguage?
JG:I thinkI stillcontinuetograpple
withhowpersonalmomentsofit really
are.SometimesI feellike I’mpotentially
violatingfictionandnonfiction,whatever
thatboundary is.I just recentlycameback
fromthisbiglongpresstourallaroundthe
world[forSpider-Man:FarFromHome]
indifferenttimezones,andI wouldcome
fromtheairport,andI woulddothepiece
intrafficif I wasinSeoulorLondonor
wherever,headedtosomeradiointerview
orsomething.I woulddoit whenI would
wakeupandI couldn’t sleep.I doit,still,
wheneverI wake up,evenifit’s inan
unconsciousstate.It’srarethat I thinka
performergets theopportunity todo
somethingagainandtorediscovercertain
things.Inourpreviewperiodat thePublic,
youdidsomeprettywacky shit...
TS:I don’t knowwhetherthisis anEng-
lishsensibilityforme,butit reallyisan
extensionoftherehearsalprocess.There’s
anaudiencethere,butthey shouldknow
they’rewatchinganexperiment.In thefirst
preview,I didit witha microphone,having
neverhelda microphoneinmy life.ButI
thinktheex citingthingaboutreturningto
it is goingintoevenmore detail.Before,we
werejust going,“Canwegetthroughthese
tenminuteswithoutpeoplefallingasleep?”
Nowwecanreallydosurgery.JG:Doyouthinkaboutmeandmystory
comingupnext?
TS:I’mcompletelyconsciousof thebaton
I passon.Inthefirstpreview,I exitedina
fury, incharacter,disgustedthat hehadtold
thestory tothesepeople.Youcouldfeelthe
audiencethink,Well,whythefuckdidyou
tellit?I thinkit’s okay toleadthemindiffer-
entways,butit’s importanttoknowwhat
you’re doingandthat youremember[the
character’s]loveat theend.
JG:I mean,monologuesalreadyhave
thatperceptionofactorindulgence.These
aremonologuesaboutloss.Howdoyouget
outofthatbox?If anyoneknowsusbothas
actors,thelast thingyouwouldwanttodo
is indulgethat thing.I wanttoridetheroller
coasterofa milliondifferentfeelings.I do
thinkthatis reallyaboutpeoplewalkingout
ofthetheaterat theendofthisexperience
feeling—asmymomusedtosay tomewhen
I’dseea moviethat I’d loveorhadanexperi-
encethatI loved—clean.
TS:That’sthecontractweaskofthe
audience:Havefaithinloveinthebegin-
ning.We’rehere tocreatea community
togetherandtodosomethingbeautiful.
Not“Herewego,thisis goingtobereally
depressing.” Theaudiencereallydoesdic-tatetheway thingsgo.If oneperson
laughsatsomethingbecauseofsomeper-
sonalconnectionwithit,I’mjust—zoom,
whereverthey are,thenextfourminutes
is foryou.It ’s nota badthing.I’macknowl-
edgingyoucoughed,whatever,yourphone
cangooff, we’rehere together.
JG:“CometoBroadway, citizen.Unwrap
thosecandies.”
TS:Everyoneintheaudienceis onlyone
stepawayfromalmost alloftheexperi-
encesofthisevening.Afterward,whenwe
talktopeople,theydon’t talkaboutthe
specificsoftheplay;they talkabouttheir
father or their child. That’s why we
broughtit toBroadway, becausethepublic
feltsuchownershipofit.
JG:If we’respeakinghonestly,there was
sortof that desire forindulgence,theacting
indulgence.Thenwhat wasgiventousasa
responsewaspeoplesharingtheirownper-
sonalexperienceswithus,whichmadeus
realizethisthingwasbiggerthanwhat we
weredoing.Andthenallofa sudden,the
showbecamea show.
TS:Havingdonea numberofplays,is
thereany differenceinwhat youfeelten
minutesbefore thefirstpreview?
JG:WhenI didIfThere Is I Haven’t
FoundItYet,I wasnervouseverynight.
WhenI didSundayintheParkWith
George,I wasn’t nervousany secondofit.
TS:Really?
JG:Evenwhenwedidit at City Center.
Youare envelopedand wrapped bya
25-pieceorchestra,orI was.Ofcourse,
therehavebeentimeswith thisshow,
before I wentout,whenI wasnervous.But
I knewsomewherethat itdidn’twork
unlessI wasn’t hidinganything.Allthe
audiencelovesisthatimperfection.It’s
whatweallleanforwardfor. That’swhat
I’vediscoveredonstage,andit’s a beautiful
thingbecauseit hashelpedmeinmylife
andinmymoviework.Youcanhatemeor
lovemeorwhatever,butultimatelythisis
howI am.Howaboutyou?
TS:Hoursbefore[Iwenton],simplythe
ideaofge ttingfromthebeginningtothe
end wasterrifying.The way I walked
onstage at thePublic,at least inthebegin-
ning,waslikethesceneinGladiatorwhen
hefirst goesoutinthearena.
JG:“Areyounotentertained?!”
TS:I dorememberbeingoutthere with
theaudienceforthefirst timeandthe
nervescompletelydisappearingandreal-
izingthatthiswasthesafest placetobe.Is
theresomethingyou’reafraidof, goinginto
thisnewexperience?
JG:I mean,wehavetwodays’rehearsal
andtwodaysoftech.We haven’tdonethe
showinfourmonths.
TS: Fairenough,I’mafraidnow. ■“Cometo
Broadway,
ci tizen.
Unwrapthose
ca ndies.”The CULTURE PAGES
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