PHAEDO 51
e77bcdThen, Simmias, he said, is not this the truth? If, as we are forever repeating, beauty,
and good, and the other ideas really exist, and if we refer all the objects of sensible per-
ception to these ideas which were formerly ours, and which we find to be ours still, and
compare sensible objects with them, then, just as they exist, our souls must have existed
before ever we were born. But if they do not exist, then our reasoning will have been
thrown away. Is it so? If these ideas exist, does it not at once follow that our souls must
have existed before we were born, and if they do not exist, then neither did our souls?
Admirably put, Socrates, said Simmias. I think that the necessity is the same for
the one as for the other. The reasoning has reached a place of safety in the common
proof of the existence of our souls before we were born and of the existence of the ideas
of which you spoke. Nothing is so evident to me as that beauty, and good, and the other
ideas which you spoke of just now have a very real existence indeed. Your proof is quite
sufficient for me.
But what of Cebes? said Socrates. I must convince Cebes too.
I think that he is satisfied, said Simmias, though he is the most skeptical of men in
argument. But I think that he is perfectly convinced that our souls existed before we
were born.
But I do not think myself, Socrates, he continued, that you have proved that the
soul will continue to exist when we are dead. The common fear which Cebes spoke of,
that she [the soul] may be scattered to the winds at death, and that death may be the end
of her existence, still stands in the way. Assuming that the soul is generated and comes
together from some other elements, and exists before she ever enters the human body,
why should she not come to an end and be destroyed, after she has entered into the
body, when she is released from it?
You are right, Simmias, said Cebes. I think that only half the required proof has
been given. It has been shown that our souls existed before we were born; but it must
also be shown that our souls will continue to exist after we are dead, no less than that
they existed before we were born, if the proof is to be complete.
That has been shown already, Simmias and Cebes, said Socrates, if you will com-
bine this reasoning with our previous conclusion, that all life is generated from death.
For if the soul exists in a previous state and if, when she comes into life and is born, she
can only be born from death, and from a state of death, must she not exist after death too,
since she has to be born again? So the point which you speak of has been already proved.
Still I think that you and Simmias would be glad to discuss this question further.
Like children, you are afraid that the wind will really blow the soul away and disperse her
when she leaves the body, especially if a man happens to die in a storm and not in a calm.
Cebes laughed and said, Try and convince us as if we were afraid, Socrates; or rather,
do not think that we are afraid ourselves. Perhaps there is a child within us who has these
fears. Let us try and persuade him not to be afraid of death, as if it were a bugbear.
You must charm him every day, until you have charmed him away, said Socrates.
And where shall we find a good charmer, Socrates, he asked, now that you are
leaving us?
Hellas is a large country, Cebes, he replied, and good men may doubtless be
found in it; and the nations of the Barbarians are many. You must search them all
through for such a charmer, sparing neither money nor labor; for there is nothing on
which you could spend money more profitably. And you must search for him among
yourselves too, for you will hardly find a better charmer than yourselves.
That shall be done, said Cebes. But let us return to the point where we left off, if
you will.
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