Unfortunately, this trend hasn’t touched the central areas of
power. In fact, it can be tolerated, even supported, by major
institutions, as long as it doesn’t get to the heart of the matter—their
power and domination over the society, which has actually
increased. If these new attitudes really started affecting the
distribution of power, you’d have some serious struggles.
Disney is a good example of the kind of accommodation you’re
describing. It exploits Third World labor in Haiti and elsewhere, but
domestically it has very liberal policies on gay rights and healthcare.
It’s perfectly consistent for the kind of corporate oligarchy we
have to say that we shouldn’t discriminate among people. They’re all
equal—equally lacking in the right to control their own fate, all
capable of being passive, apathetic, obedient consumers and
workers. The people on top will have greater rights, of course, but
they’ll be equally greater rights—regardless of whether they’re
black, white, green, gay, heterosexual, men, women, whatever.
You arrived very late for a talk you gave in Vancouver. What were
the circumstances?
The event was organized by the British Columbia labor
movement. My talk was scheduled for about 7 pm. I should have
made it in ample time, but every imaginable thing went wrong with
the airlines, and I didn’t get there until about 10:30 or 11:00.
To my amazement there were still (what looked like) 800 or 900
people there—they’d been watching documentaries and having
discussions. I didn’t bother with the talk—it was too late for that—so
we just started off with a discussion. It was quite lively, and went on
for a couple of hours.
Toward the end of the question-and-answer period, someone asked
you about the power of the system and how to change it. You said
it’s “a very weak system. It looks powerful but could easily be
changed.” Where do you see the weaknesses?
I see them at every level. We’ve discussed them earlier, but
here’s a summary: