98 PLATO
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“Well, I call that kind of city and polity, and that kind of man, good and right, and
if this sort are right, the rest are bad and wrong, in the ways the cities are managed and
the way the soul’s disposition is constituted in private persons, and the badness takes
four forms.”
“What sorts are they?” he said.
And I was going on to describe them in order, the way it appeared to me they
change out of one another in each case, but Polemarchus, who was sitting a little way
from Adeimantus, reached out his hand and grabbed him from above by his cloak at the
shoulder, drew him near, stretching himself forward, and was saying something while
stooping toward him, of which we heard nothing but this: “Shall we let it go, then,” he
said, “or what shall we do?”
“Not in the least,” said Adeimantus, now speaking loudly.
And I said, “What in particular won’t you let go?”
“You,” he said.
“Because of what in particular?” I said.
“You seem to us to be taking the lazy way out,” he said, “and to be cheating us out
of a whole form that belongs to the argument, and not the least important one, to avoid
going over it, and you seem to have imagined you’d get away with speaking of it
dismissively, saying it’s obvious, about women and children, that what belongs to
friends will be shared in common.”
“And wasn’t I right, Adeimantus?” I said.
“Yes,” he said, “but this ‘right’ needs explanation, like the rest of it, about what
the manner of the sharing would be, since there could be many. So don’t pass over
which of them you’re talking about, since we’ve been waiting all this time imagining
you’d make some mention somewhere about the procreation of children, how they’ll be
produced and once they’re born how they’ll be raised, and of this whole sharing of
women and children you’re talking about. Because we think it has a big bearing, in fact
a total impact, on whether the polity comes into being in the right way or not. But now,
since you’re taking on another polity before you’ve determined these things sufficiently,
it seemed right to us to do what you’ve heard, to refuse to let you go until you’ve gone
over all these things just like the rest.”
“Me too,” said Glaucon; “put me down as a partner in this vote.”
“Don’t worry,” said Thrasymachus, “consider these things as having seemed good
to all of us, Socrates.”
“Oh what you folks have done by ambushing me,” I said. “So much discussion
about the polity you’re setting in motion again, as though from the beginning, when
I was rejoicing at having already gotten to the end of it, feeling content if anyone would
leave these things alone and accept them the way they were stated then. You have no
idea what a big swarm of arguments you’ve stirred up with the things you’re now
demanding; since I saw that at the time I passed it by, fearing it would cause a lot of
trouble.”
“What!” said Thrasymachus. “Do you imagine these people have come this far
now to fritter away their time looking for gold rather than to listen to arguments?”
“All well and good,” I said, “but within measure.”
“The measure in hearing such arguments, Socrates,” said Glaucon, “for anyone
who has any sense, is a whole life. So give up on that as far as we’re concerned; just see449bcd450a
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